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Old 06-16-2009, 08:31 PM   #46
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One day I hope to be listed on Chicky's list of people who should be running mod. I would love to give it a good solid try at a major event. I don't have a fear of the track barriers or of parts issues. The main reason I have yet to run mod is because there just isn't a class around here. I plan to practice some this winter though just to try it.
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Old 06-16-2009, 08:52 PM   #47
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I don't understand why guys run mod at a track where 13.5 or 10.5 is faster! Sure they may come up on you fast in the straight, but if they hit you, its their dirty little fault. I'd go for faster lap times.
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Old 06-16-2009, 09:07 PM   #48
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I don't understand why guys run mod at a track where 13.5 or 10.5 is faster! Sure they may come up on you fast in the straight, but if they hit you, its their dirty little fault. I'd go for faster lap times.
That is only if you are talking about the less experienced drivers. You put a mod in the hands of a pro, 10.5's and 13.5's won't be faster.
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Old 06-16-2009, 09:22 PM   #49
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with the speeds you can get out of a 13.5 and it being cheaper then mod, most people are staying with 13.5, that is why this year our club decided not to offer the 13.5 or 10.5 classes, the result, down to a C main in 17.5, Full heats of Mod and growing with record turn outs.
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Old 06-16-2009, 09:27 PM   #50
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I find it interesting that we do not have a ranking system in RC today... I would think something like what the PGA Tour uses to rank players could be adapted to RC. Now I am no expert when it comes to how the PGA tour ranks but I think something like this could be used:

http://www.popeofslope.com/worldrankings/mathgenie.html

Now clearly the PGA tour only ranks a couple hundred guys, we would need a ranking system that worked for thousands of racers (down to the regional level) which would be a lot of work, but could be possible...
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Old 06-16-2009, 09:59 PM   #51
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I always tell this story so I might as well once again...lol...

Akron, Ohio 1998 - First year racing for Trinity @ the ROAR Carpet Oval Nats - 6-cell 1/10 Mod with a 12 turn, I Tq'd with a 63 4:05 (dumped last lap).

Akron, Ohio 2002 - ROAR Carpet Oval Nats, same track - 4-cell 1/10 Mod with 9 turn, 62 4:03

Akron, Ohio 2008 - Just a club race day, same track - 4-cell 1/10 10.5 - 62 4:01 - Modified 4-cell ran 68 laps!!!

Now, 10.5 4-cell is slower than 17.5 with a 7.4v Lipo and yet we are racing 7.4v Lipo in Mod with 4.5's and lower?? Sorry but even being one of the pro racers, it's simply not fun anymore because there are only a few guys who can drive it, the amount of equipment you have to go through to keep up (new tires every run) and the amount of time/testing you have to put in just to get the car on the same lap is impossible for people to do unless they are a Pro.

The speeds have increased so much that it's not possible for the cars to remain drivable for most racers. I know people say whatever "man up" but seriously are you going to go do something that you feel totally uncomfortable with (like walking into a dark hotel room that Geotz, Chicky, McSmooth and Herrmann are in).... I don't think so. For most, 17.5 is fast enough to race and be enjoyable. 13.5 is boarder line and 10.5 is too fast. Mod is out of the question.

There are options but most people don't want to look at or accept:

#1 - As 1/12 has dropped now in voltage to 3.7v Lipo, maybe TC should as well - Yep, they'll be slower but then you get the good drivers who are bored with the speeds to move up through the classes. That way, Mod is drivable and the prestegious class to win, not just the class that only the Pro's can drive in but no one else cares about.

#2 - The cars have to be more drivable. Reducing weight, increasing tire width, and the biggest thing is the bodies (trust me, I've seen it a lot with our 1/8 nitro cars). Put a Lola or maybe even a DTM body on the Mod cars so they have the ample downforce and low CG they need for the speeds and then people will enjoy it because they are more solid and under control. Honestly, I understand the concept about the .030, standard weight bodies because they last longer but in reality they make the cars drive terrible compared to some of the old .020 bodies that we ran. I would love to drive an R9-F in .020 lexan just to see how much easier it makes the cars drive. Of course the scale model "realists" out there probably want to hang me right now but look at the entries for 1/12 vs TC the last two years and tell me how much of having a real looking body vs. a functional body is important for the health of a class.... Ask the guys who run 1/8 nitro who can run a corner flat out at 70mph care if it looks real.... The line has to be drawn somewhere.

#3 - Everyone compares the US turn out to the European turn out in Mod but everyone fails to take note - Much larger tracks, much lower traction and they are only on 5-cells!!! 5-cells with a 3.5 is a ton more drivable than even a 5.0 with a 7.4v Lipo. You don't have the expolsive bottom end that spins the tires so easily.

In the end - It has to be FUN. Good competition, good racing with drivable cars that people can go home talking about the battle they had on the track with another driver rather than talking about how they couldn't get there car drivable to even run a clean run....

But.... What do I know... I'm only a washed up, spoiled RC Pro.....
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Old 06-16-2009, 10:16 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charlie_b View Post
That is only if you are talking about the less experienced drivers. You put a mod in the hands of a pro, 10.5's and 13.5's won't be faster.
Very true, but even many times with pros mod times can be slower than superstock times. Look at Reedy '09.

Though the thread starter is asking why there is a lack of mod drivers. Only 50-100 people in the world qualify as pro (I think) Whatever it is, its a very low ratio of pros to regular joe shmoes. The guys joining won't likely be pros.

Still, I say run mod if you want, but run the motor that makes fastest lap times. Also, mod drivers should only be experts. Need some damage control from hacks. You NEED drivers that know how to get out of the way and let people pass, or know when its safe to make a pass. Im SICK of people racing like its NASCAR. DON'T hit anyone, anytime. Drive like its an open wheel car.
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Old 06-16-2009, 10:31 PM   #53
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I think Josh is on the money. Making racing about the driving agianst othe drivers and not jsut being able to keep a rocket on the track would make mod more fun.
Also, lower voltage = longer lasting gear. Everyone seems to love Lipo, but I wonder how much of the gear getting fried around the world would still be fine if it was 6 volt. Maybe just me being an old fart not wanting new tech. Maybe.
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Old 06-16-2009, 10:40 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Cyrul View Post
.

#3 - Everyone compares the US turn out to the European turn out in Mod but everyone fails to take note - Much larger tracks, much lower traction and they are only on 5-cells!!! 5-cells with a 3.5 is a ton more drivable than even a 5.0 with a 7.4v Lipo. You don't have the expolsive bottom end that spins the tires so easily.
And there you have it, when they went to 5 cell, they also ended up with another phenomenom, they could actually dump, so now they have to gear to make the run time and manage their sets of controlled tires. Two things that have been missing from our racing for quite a while now. We have so much power available you can put in any motor you want and still make run time, where is the challange? The high capacity stuff has plainly made it too simple to overpower anything we have for cars right now. So saying mod was slower back then is sort of right if you take into account cornering capabilities, but pure straight line, I think it would still be a toss up. Its all just another example of how the new age racer will never experience the true essense of this hobby/sport. Oh for the good old days of 1700's.
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Old 06-16-2009, 10:59 PM   #55
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Well hopefully one day i will be a mod driver. You never know. I will watch. My name is Schuyler La Brosse and you will hear my name and see it in the magazines we all read. Thank you for your time.
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Old 06-17-2009, 01:11 AM   #56
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Great post Josh. Although i am in europe, i identified myself totally with your ideas.

Where i live i used to run mod with 5 cell nimh. Big tracks, it was a blast.

This year the regulations allowed lipo. Speeds went up like crazy. +700w setups are the hot ticket.

Now everybody is slowly leaving modified. Its too fast, too hard to drive, too hard on the gear.
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Old 06-17-2009, 02:31 AM   #57
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Hi
iīm from the same place as itchy and i dont have the same opinion
he even forgot to say that is running stock class (9,5T + lipo) this year so faster than yours 10,5T.
and the other guys that run mod (motor free + lipo)
of course stock class will have always more pilots than mod and that doesnīt have to be a question because of speed itīs just like that and period.

but look at this videos (2 mod)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjmcP0Coe6Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QL6Q1eH0Iqg

one stock

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRUqjBoGySI

thatīs our tracks in Portugal
let you know that most of those pilots run GM 6T DELTA + LIPO thatīs not too fast for the track is about the same speed as 1/10 200mm
I think your problem is that your tracks are too short it seems like you want to run TC mod on SCALEXTRIC track.

to finish when you have a maximum limit, you can always run below that maximum so my question is, you donīt have to run the fastest material isnīt it? so if you can run 4,5,6 cells NIMH and Lipo if you think itīs to much why you run lipo?run 5cells for example.
but even in stock classes you run the fastest ( or try) so that kind of argument for me is nothing, everyone wants always to be faster and faster on the class he is so donīt bother with that

Probably what you have to do is, who wins the champs must move to the next class (faster) and like that youīll have more guys able to run mod.
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Old 06-17-2009, 02:54 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charlie_b View Post
That is only if you are talking about the less experienced drivers. You put a mod in the hands of a pro, 10.5's and 13.5's won't be faster.
Not necessarily. The track is ultimately going to dictate the fastest possible time and in our case (the club where I race) it has been demonstrated that superstock is about as fast as you can go albeit one of our best drivers occasionally beats the crap out of the superstock field (all of them running brushless) with a humble stock 27 turn brushed motor (when he cares to turn up).

This makes it superfluous to invest in mod gear just to run a class that doesn't add anything to the racing environment. Sure, you can run it, but it's pointless.

Changing the track is another problem. We run on carpet indoors and the track size is then limited. Simply put, mod has become too fast for some tracks and when you can be just as fast with motors that are not going to blow diffs up and generally speaking are going to inflict less overall wear on the car why would you run it?

i am sure in the future we will have tougher gear that will stand a lot better to the stress induced by the current levels of power available at our disposal, but we're not there yet. Hardware (transmissions mainly) technology has a little bit of catching up to do.

One case in point is the ceramic bearings which are ubiquitous these days and are becoming cheaper (albeit not necessarily better) by the month. Still, one can buy ceramic bearings and get a lot more bang (read long service too, not only speed) for their buck than with steel bearings.
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Old 06-17-2009, 04:36 AM   #59
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Great post Josh, you got it exactly!
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Old 06-17-2009, 05:29 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Cyrul View Post
but seriously are you going to go do something that you feel totally uncomfortable with (like walking into a dark hotel room that Geotz, Chicky, McSmooth and Herrmann are in)
Which reminds me, I still have your watch.
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