R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 06-19-2009, 09:20 AM   #256
Suspended
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: The Black Country, England
Posts: 340
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by John St.Amant View Post
Maybe he bought his Nicco car at Toys R Us....
Maybe I didn't...

Thinking about it again. even racing at 10-20mph isn't true scale speed as you will still be flat out everywhere, lets make it 5pmh instead...

Start driving modified you bunch of nancy yanks!.. I know you may have to navigate corners other than a left hander (which may prove tricky) but we all have to learn at some point
Nick Priest is offline  
Old 06-19-2009, 09:21 AM   #257
Tech Elite
 
Brandon Melton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: NC
Posts: 2,506
Trader Rating: 7 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to Brandon Melton
Default

Holy cow. I haven't raced on-road in a year and a half, and now I can reinforce why that is. I check in the on-road threads from time to time just to see what's going on, and after sifting through this, I realize why I don't miss it one bit.

I didn't read all 17 pages, but I couldn't agree with Josh more. I used to love racing modified around 2003-2006 when it would not grenade my car even if I didn't hit anything. 10 turn limit was awesome but in todays reality lipo and 13.5 is probably what 2400's and 10 turns were back then. I was happy to be in the B-D main at nationals because mod was more fun to drive, I can only imagine the headache it is nowawadays.

I would even love to dabble in TC again, but it has died beyond belief around my parts. The way batteries and motors are changing every 6months and now I here there are "timing speed controls" that are a "must have" to race in 17.5 and 13.5 just makes me want to stay far away.

This is why 1/8 offroad has taken over, everybody runs the same crap. I know if I got beat it's because he was better or chose better tire, etc.. Guys can go "fast" and make one mistake and not tear the whole side off the car, or rebuild diffs every 10 minutes of track time. The cars handle the abuse the driver's give them.

In mod sedan, I can count on one hand (accross the world) the guys who I would wager money on actually finishing a mod heat race or 5 minute main. The last carpet mod race I watched, 4 of the 10 guys in the main finished, very exciting. When the best driver's in the world can't keep their cars together, something's gotta give, and when it does, maybe I'd race a little TC again.
__________________
Team Associated~Reedy~Werks Racing~Pro-Line~Competition Suspension Inc.~Schelle Racing Innovations
Brandon Melton is offline  
Old 06-19-2009, 09:32 AM   #258
Tech Master
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,010
Trader Rating: 55 (100%+)
Default

locally 10.5 are still a lap (over 5 minutes) off the times set with 7x1's a few years ago, too slow to be considered as mod outdoors imho.

i don't know how well a capacity limit would work due to the nature of lipos. on a large track you might need to get the measuring tape out when everyone lipo cuts on the last lap

5000mah lipos can be emptied in 5 mins with a 3.5T on a large track, managed that one tonight

where a capacity limit usually ends with you babying your gear, a motor limit always ends up the exact opposite. even if the limit is a quick motor, say 5.5 turns. people will end up pushing them as far as they can with aggressive profiles, timing and gearing. the class won't survive a return to increased failure rates.

i enjoy the speed and reliability of the class at the moment. the main thing mod needs is some stability and uniformity in the rules again. every time the rules have been changed it has cost a lot of money, making it hard to keep racing the class.
tones is offline  
Old 06-19-2009, 09:32 AM   #259
Tech Lord
 
wingracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,861
Trader Rating: 24 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Priest View Post
Maybe I didn't...

Thinking about it again. even racing at 10-20mph isn't true scale speed as you will still be flat out everywhere, lets make it 5pmh instead...
There is no such thing as scale speed. A second is a second is a second.

The point is that the cars have gotten to the point where even the pros have a hard time driving and keeping the things in one piece. That can't be a good thing.

Add a few minutes to the race time and bring capacity back into play. That will slow them down and keep the driver as the most important ingredient.
__________________
Sean. Certified speed crazed mowron.
Team Shepherd USA
www.ashfordhobby.com
wingracer is offline  
Old 06-19-2009, 09:38 AM   #260
Tech Master
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: MI
Posts: 1,544
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to John St.Amant Send a message via MSN to John St.Amant Send a message via Yahoo to John St.Amant
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by seaball View Post
alright, nobody's saying anything new. and this isn't a poll, so voting for an aforementioned opinion has absolutely no use. let's not let this go the way of every other thread in history (that makes us wonder why we even thought r/c was a good idea).

let it fall down the list of threads gracefully if you have no new insight to add.

in the first post, robk asked if it was the track construction that is what made running mode in the u.s. unattractive. after all of this mumbo jumbo, it appears not to be the contruction, but the size that's the issue. (isn't it always?) for every place else, their tracks have not reached a size where unlimited mod is so daunting. over here, we have, and one of two things must change.

essentially, our lap times have to get back to some minimum number for mod. slow the cars, slow the cornerspeed (tires), or expand the track.


Right !
Corner speed is way too high.
Hence the statement " Foam is for pan cars."
In a 4wd T/C with a mod AND foam? Thats just frickin' ridiculous.
Even the 10.5 foam T/C's were insane and only bout half the guys were finishing the race anyways.
__________________
Pro-Line Racing , Boca Bearings , Competition Heat.
Team Durango DEX210, DEX410V3, DESC410R, DNX408
Futaba FAAST 2.4 4PkS, LRP, Tekin, Xcellorin
John St.Amant is offline  
Old 06-19-2009, 09:40 AM   #261
Tech Champion
 
snoopyrc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Tunnel Hill GA
Posts: 5,046
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Until this thread popped up I really had no consideration for the low turnout in mod. I just thought the 13.5 class had replaced it. If you are one of the guys who thinks its a terrible thing that mod turnout is scarce then the only thing I can think of for you to do is run mod and talk smack to all your buddies so that they will join you.

I really hope the class doesnt become extinct. There should be a place for those who can, to shine. I love the way other racers and spectators gather around and go wow, when the mod heats are running. But I cant run this class. Its not within my abilities or desire to do so.
__________________
www.battlefieldraceway.com Racing videos at http://www.youtube.com/snoopyrc
snoopyrc is offline  
Old 06-19-2009, 09:41 AM   #262
Suspended
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: The Black Country, England
Posts: 340
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wingracer View Post
There is no such thing as scale speed. A second is a second is a second.

The point is that the cars have gotten to the point where even the pros have a hard time driving and keeping the things in one piece. That can't be a good thing.

Add a few minutes to the race time and bring capacity back into play. That will slow them down and keep the driver as the most important ingredient.
Hrm... National over here in may (which I drove in) every driver in the mod finals finished...

Guess we just know how to keep the car in one piece better over here
Nick Priest is offline  
Old 06-19-2009, 09:46 AM   #263
Tech Elite
 
seaball's Avatar
R/C Tech Charter Subscriber
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,303
Trader Rating: 9 (100%+)
Send a message via Yahoo to seaball
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon Melton View Post
I would even love to dabble in TC again, but it has died beyond belief around my parts. The way batteries and motors are changing every 6months and now I here there are "timing speed controls" that are a "must have" to race in 17.5 and 13.5 just makes me want to stay far away.
i hope you do come back. realize that most of this stuff you mentioned (that i quoted) is an illusion. it's the same guys that thought their brushed motors and matched cells weren't good enough. no matter what the technology, they will ALWAYS find a way to make things seem like it's not their intelligence or ability that's the limiting factor. their names may be different but it's the same person underneath their skin.

the life cycle is short on some stuff right now, but things haven't changed all that much. the new trinity motor sucked a**, so you don't need that. and all the decent batteries run about the same. don't take away a bad impression from this thread. the few guys that have a clue are all on the same page.

come out for our grand slam series and you'll see what i mean. everyone had their motor they liked (and didn't ruin it by having to rebuild it like the old brushed motors), and just ran it. gearing isn't critical anymore, and if you're bored, you can try to screw around with the esc profile (which really doesn't matter either). yeah, you can miss on it, but just like a t/c setup, there's more than one way to skin the horsepower cat.

13.5 rubber will be off the charts this coming season. (hey, even we couldn't ignore the stats of rubber tire).
__________________
*** The Gate II - Home of Mike Wise ***
seaball is offline  
Old 06-19-2009, 09:55 AM   #264
Tech Lord
 
wingracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,861
Trader Rating: 24 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Priest View Post
Hrm... National over here in may (which I drove in) every driver in the mod finals finished...

Guess we just know how to keep the car in one piece better over here
Was that race 5 cell or 2s Lipo? Foam or rubber tire?
__________________
Sean. Certified speed crazed mowron.
Team Shepherd USA
www.ashfordhobby.com
wingracer is offline  
Old 06-19-2009, 10:03 AM   #265
Suspended
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: The Black Country, England
Posts: 340
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wingracer View Post
Was that race 5 cell or 2s Lipo? Foam or rubber tire?
5 cell, the rules are soon changing as well so lipo will be allowed in with the 5 cell drivers at the 1425g weight limit..

Rubber tyres of course, here in the uk we believe in making it hard for ourselves
Nick Priest is offline  
Old 06-19-2009, 10:07 AM   #266
Tech Lord
 
wingracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12,861
Trader Rating: 24 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Priest View Post
5 cell, the rules are soon changing as well so lipo will be allowed in with the 5 cell drivers at the 1425g weight limit..

Rubber tyres of course, here in the uk we believe in making it hard for ourselves
You're actually making it easier for yourself. Try 2s lipo foam tire mod on an indoor carpet track.
__________________
Sean. Certified speed crazed mowron.
Team Shepherd USA
www.ashfordhobby.com
wingracer is offline  
Old 06-19-2009, 10:07 AM   #267
Tech Elite
 
seaball's Avatar
R/C Tech Charter Subscriber
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,303
Trader Rating: 9 (100%+)
Send a message via Yahoo to seaball
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Priest View Post
here in the uk we believe in making it hard for ourselves
over here we have unions. your ideal is a lost cause!
__________________
*** The Gate II - Home of Mike Wise ***
seaball is offline  
Old 06-19-2009, 11:26 AM   #268
Tech Champion
 
robk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Macho Business Donkey Wrestler
Posts: 7,587
Trader Rating: 22 (100%+)
Default

West London RC




2009 carpet nats (partial)


__________________
A mutually re-enforcing cascade of failure

"Failior [sic] crowns enterprise." Robert Goddard

I-Lap Scoring Systems http://www.rclapcounter.com/
robk is offline  
Old 06-19-2009, 11:47 AM   #269
Tech Master
 
chicky03's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,993
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to chicky03
Default

Just a thought.

One problem we have here is the US with having large out door tracks is property is a prime dollar. In Europe most of the time the govt gives or rents the land to the club and helps them build it. Also the major races are held in gymnasiums so they are able to make a larger track than we can make here. Imagine having to pay the rent for a week in some university or something like that? I know of a nitro track in Italy that is on the beach, I forget the name but that would NEVER happen here.
__________________
Serpent America, Picco, Desoto Racing, Motiv, J Concepts, Nitro Pro fuel, PT RC Racing Oils, TQ Wire(best wire ever!), BSR tires, Arrowmax, Xceed, Sanwa, Amain Hobbies, MIP, Getcustomized, EZ Customs
chicky03 is offline  
Old 06-19-2009, 11:53 AM   #270
Tech Elite
 
Skiddins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Windsor, UK
Posts: 4,762
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Priest View Post
Hrm... National over here in may (which I drove in) every driver in the mod finals finished...

Guess we just know how to keep the car in one piece better over here
Nick, now tell everyone where you qualified, and what class you were in

You're actually helping their argument by proving their point

------
In the UK Mod were having trouble keeping drivers as motors were grenading, speedo's melting etc. The decision was taken to try 5cell as this would reduce the heat build up etc as well as reduce wear etc.

It has worked! Most track records have been beaten in the modified class as the cars are now better balanced which makes them easier to drive which in turn makes them easier to race wheel to wheel while there are very few failures.

At the moment the use of 2s lipo's is allowed but with a 6.5 motor limit at 1500g (5cell is 1425g), these are allowed to run alongside the 5cell unlimited cars and are comparable (there are attempts at the moment to reduce the 6.5 weight limit to move it inline with 5cell).
The best drivers in the country think that 5cell has been a success and I don't think I need to tell you how good some of them are .

Perhaps a similar limit would make sense in the US?

I've noticed that a lot of permanent tracks in the US seem to be small indoor facilities, not the larger asphalt tracks we are lucky enough to have over here, that makes a big difference and I invite anyone who has said unlimited 2s lipo is good to post video's of their driving...I could do with a laugh

If those people think they are good enough they would be the best, they aren't, and I bet if we look closely their results at every level will prove it!

Think about the bigger picture, racing in a heat of 2 or 3 is not racing.

Skiddins.

P.S. the first of the tracks pictured above is WLRC, which I am very lucky to have as my home track.
It is also the smallest of the tracks for this years UK nationals!!
__________________
Xray T4'18, T4'14 (Wet Car)
Xray X12 2018
Xray X1'16
wlrc.co.uk (West London Racing Centre)
RCDisco.co.uk
Skiddins is offline  
Closed Thread

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Tamiya TB-Evolution IV gtypecanare Electric On-Road 3600 11-03-2017 01:06 PM
Schumacher CAT SX 1/10 4WD Competition Buggy Mike Schumacher Electric Off-Road 2166 06-05-2017 07:33 AM
Windsor Indoor Hobby Centre Besercoe Australian Racing 7835 06-25-2011 02:35 AM
UK Race Talk TryHard Racing Forum 9876 12-05-2010 11:46 AM
(US) Rubber/Carpet: Are we ready for mod yet? Adam? Electric On-Road 29 04-10-2009 10:14 PM
Bring Back 1/10 Scale Pan Car Poll!! gijoe64 Electric On-Road 746 10-04-2005 11:47 AM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 01:28 PM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net