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Old 06-18-2009, 10:25 AM   #151
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Originally Posted by John St.Amant View Post
ROAR kept changing the case sizes when the capacities went up on the sub "C" cells. Last I checked my so called sub C cells wouldn't even fit into my battery jig. Now your going to tell me that ROAR will stick with a maximum case size for lipos? Lets see how long that lasts? Is it apples and oranges or will they make cases bigger when some other new technology comes out . God I can't even think of the $$$$ I tossed away on cells. I do on the other hand like a uniform package with barrel connectors. Wires sticking out of the plastic case are too subject to damage and we all know what happens to a shorted lipo. Maybe its been far too long for ROAR to finalize the lipo issues.
It sucks trying to wedge a lithium polymer blast furnace into a modified to fit car.
John ...... I guess if you consider changing can sizes then yes ROAR did allow the increases. Something tokeep in mind it wasn't just ROAR. EFRA and IFMAR allowed the same and because of that ROAR didn't have much of a choice. The choice allow the cells or drive up the cost by mandating a different can size from the rest of the world. Rest assured an increase in lipo case size under the current ROAR managment is not something that will happen. As far as capacity and C limits. It could work but there would have o be a standard for rating capacity and C and batteries would have to be tested to those standards. Something most mfr's don't want.

Kn7671 .... you are correct in that if we did decrease case size we would eventually end up with the same capacity and power in that smaller case. There was a suggestion that ROAR create a rule that mandates a certain size reduction in case every so many years. That would be quite costly to mfr's and racers, but it could work.
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Old 06-18-2009, 10:43 AM   #152
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Oh Please....
Just the facts man.
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Old 06-18-2009, 10:54 AM   #153
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St. Amant - Get off the barrel connectors already... Do you realize it's easy to hook up a Lipo backwards and destroy it (or your other electronics) but it's impossible with a deans?? Get a clue already. As far as case size - They won't change that because it's a couple of $k investment for a new case so everyone makes their case to the limit and then stuffs the cells inside. The only way they will change is if they are forced to with mandatory case size reductions every 2-3 years to keep capacity and speeds in check (like I proposed to Ruben and ROAR).

Here's my question that everyone overlooks - Just because a sticker (just like shrink wrap) says it's 5000mah @ 40C does that mean that's in the case?? Setting a Maximum C and mah rating is a joke and impossible to test unless you have someone sitting there in tech cycling batteries all day to check that they are in spec. Flat impossible....

Use the case dimension to regulate things - It's the easiest, most simple way that won't cost the racers/organizations the time/money trying to keep everything on the up and up. This way too, you don't encourage cheating by putting different cells in the cases - the mfg's will have their latest and greatest out for all customers to use again for the fairness and good of the hobby. So what we ran 10.5's and were running slower than full Mod. The fun of racing is actually RACING...

As far as being a Pro and wanting the cars slowed down - Really, I am game for whatever brings in more racers with better racing. While I am excited that we now have our production car so I won't have to be so cautious next year, I have a new motor sponsor with a lot better Mod motors - I am not interested in running TC Mod Foam this year simply because it was boring racing against 3-5 people in Mod last year. I had a blast racing the Northeast Grand Slam Series because it was close racing with a lot of good drivers that made it fun and took effort/concentration.
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Old 06-18-2009, 11:02 AM   #154
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Originally Posted by snoopyrc View Post
What are they running now? 2s/21.5 ? How would that compare to your powertrain suggestion?

You know guys for the most part I think Mod has dwindled because its so darn fast that either the drivers or the track, or the gear cant handle it. Or any combination of the afore mentioned circumstances.
4 cell 13.5
2s 17.5
2s 21.5
1s 13.5
1s 10.5

Too many differrent combinations. New ROAR rules are 1s for WGT and 1/12th. IIC will be all 1s in pan car this summer so it looks`like we're moving in a unified direction here.
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Old 06-18-2009, 11:07 AM   #155
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Originally Posted by jopor View Post
I want to undersatand you guys but itīs difficult for me
This one is simple. You never raced in mods on Portuguese National Championship or any other championship. Your experience is 1 year of racing in 9,5T Stock Portuguese Nationals.

Simple don't you think?
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Old 06-18-2009, 11:16 AM   #156
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I love this thread
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Old 06-18-2009, 11:43 AM   #157
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Wow, Josh deciding not to run Mod Foam Touring next year is basically saying the class is dead. Really though, we (US) needs to align with the rest of the world and just run rubber in Touring on all surfaces. One of the reasons foam was raced on carpet back in the day was because rubber was too hard on carpet. With the new CRC HD Ozite carpet, this is less of an issue. Also, we need to ditch the NIMH's and brushed motors as they are a thing of the past. They're only good for bashing at this point.

As for classes:

Touring
Mod Touring - 10.5\2S LIPO
Stock Touring - 17.5\2S LIPO

1:12
Mod 12 - 10.5\1S LIPO
Stock 12 - 13.5\1S LIPO

WGT
10.5\1S LIPO
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Old 06-18-2009, 11:45 AM   #158
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Default A new to electric, mid range nitro driver perspective

I've read most of this thread, probably should've been working, but it's interesting so I got caught up. My response might turn out to be long, so feel free to pass this post.

I think one guy here...maybe Chicky was driving a point i agree with. Better drivers should run the faster cars and leave the slower classes to people like me. Granted, I'm not sponsored, I enjoy driving, hopping up my car (i like to build and test stuff), and I prefer nitro...I had a lot of fun racing 17.5/Rubber at 360 Speedway during the winter. It was a controlled speed, I got to learn how changes to my car affected handling, and I wasn't really worried about really bad crashes. I broke 1 rear arm and bent a sway bar all winter long.

What I did notice was new guys (this goes for nitro and electric) would come in, be placed in the Q main, and never want to run again because the higher mains are stacked with the same guys every race who are sponsored, been doing this for as long as some were alive, and can have a fairly new car built for the Amain run. I think if I was as competitive as others, I would've given it up (electric that is) because as a new comer, you get the feeling you can't compete, you'll never "be there". Then the turnout is less, hobby shops suffer, tracks close, and we all suffer in the long run (sponsored or not).

I started thinking, why would these really fast guys run these slower classes, and I think Drew E. said it in his post. SPONSORSHIP!!! Maybe, just maybe, there is the problem. Some of these guys are not running what they can, because they may not be in the A or the top of the B, which means they lose their sponsors. Kind of sucks for us all. I'm not saying do away with it, but I don't think the system works out to the advantage of the hobby. Guys can't move up and out to make room for new comers because they may lose their gig, which means 10 more new people won't join our hobby because 10 more fast guys won't "get out of their class".

I watched Burch, Cyrul, Swauger (think I spelled that right) and a few others run in the A-Main 8th scale at 301 Raceway Capital Classic. It was amazing. The control of the cars, the precision driving, everything about it was great. Before that I hated 8th scale, the cars seemed out of control, and the drivers seemed hell bent on getting to the next corner as fast as possible...only to realize, they need to turn. At which point the wall or the closest car became the brakes. 90% of these guys probably should be driving 10th scale, not 8th. Once they mastered 10th, move up to 8th. I like a progression system, it keeps it fun, competitive and more importantly, brings new racers in.

I didn't know the Grandslam series forced the faster guys into the next class. That makes me want to participate in the series next time because I can be in a class with people of similar skill and not really have to worry about being shut out of the higher mains.

This is solely my opinion, which I have a right to.
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Old 06-18-2009, 11:59 AM   #159
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My 6 yr. old doesn't have any problems putting the red wire in the red hole and the black one in the black hole.
As far as the case sizes (apparently no one seems to get this) But there are a few cars that can not use said case size. So like Edison there in lies a problem Nicola. But once (like I mentioned before) the next generation of Chassis comes along... Like you car for instance. Made to accommodate said packs. So be it but can they just do it so every engineer gets a fair shot at it ?
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Old 06-18-2009, 12:00 PM   #160
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Also, i think Vintage is a great class for all, beginners and pros.
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Old 06-18-2009, 12:02 PM   #161
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Also, i think Vintage is a great class for all, beginners and pros.
OMG I would love it !
They are faster than I can remember a brushed stock from what I had 10 years ago.
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Old 06-18-2009, 12:19 PM   #162
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Originally Posted by Jeff Werner View Post
Many of the faces of US Mod onroad are gone.
yep, they had to start paying for stuff and/or getting real jobs. my heart goes out to them. (of course that's not the case for all the guys we don't see at the track anymore - but it sure did happen quickly over the last year or two). it's easy to get spoiled. by support... or by having a multitude of class offerings.

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Mod classes should be able to run whatever motor they choose. This is the class that should push the envelope in rc technology and leave motor choice up to the racer.
that seems to be a good recipe ...

... for the 7 drivers across the u.s. that are currently enthused about pushing said envelope. in theory, that's great. we're talking more about the reality here. sometimes the envelope just won't hold any more. many think we are witnessing a working example of that condition at the moment.

speaking of reality, we're not talking about slowing mod down to a level where you can drive it like an on/off switch. and we're not talking about making it a class where johnny idiot should be running either. we're talking about taking the edge off of it. that's all. 5-cell mod is WAY softer on the bottom than 6 or li-po. why did other parts of the world move to 5-cell? was there a shortage of cells i'm not aware of? was it a fear of even numbers? c'mon. take something intelligent away from this. how many guys overseas are complaining that mod racing is too slow with 5-cell? WAIT! how many experienced racers are complaining that it's too slow? did they all just quit racing when it moved to 5-cell?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Cyrul View Post
So what we ran 10.5's and were running slower than full Mod. The fun of racing is actually RACING...
whoa, josh. you expect people reading this to buy into this?

one of the issues is that sensible people are far outnumbered here. it used to be that roar made rules based on racer preferences. you know, the guys that actually showed up, and raced by these rules, and communicated their concerns face to face or over the phone.
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Old 06-18-2009, 12:19 PM   #163
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Originally Posted by Apex View Post

Touring
Mod Touring - 10.5\2S LIPO
Stock Touring - 17.5\2S LIPO

1:12
Mod 12 - 10.5\1S LIPO
Stock 12 - 13.5\1S LIPO

WGT
10.5\1S LIPO
+1

In offroad you still have mod and stock. Guess what? Mod class is twice the size of stock.

DK
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Old 06-18-2009, 12:34 PM   #164
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Originally Posted by PartTime View Post
+1

In offroad you still have mod and stock. Guess what? Mod class is twice the size of stock.

DK
Mod is slow offroad.

There are races in Illinois that get 50+ cars for Mod Sprint cars on dirt oval. The cars are not out of control, but you can only hook up so much power. Much like offroad.
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Old 06-18-2009, 12:40 PM   #165
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PartTime - Yep, and most in Mod (with the exception of 4wd) run 10.5's as anything hotter is too hard to drive - I went 4wd off-road racing at an indoor track and anything hotter than maybe an 8.5 was too much. Also, at the rediculos speeds of off-road Mod is running what, high 20-low 30mph range... Not even close to the high 40's low 50's that Mod on-road runs... You can't even compare off-road to on-road.
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