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Old 06-18-2009, 02:57 AM   #136
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Same situation here. On a 20m straight, cars come at 70km/h in mod measured with a Lidar gun. If they fly out of the corner at the end (which happens every so often) they go tumbling over 10 meters and hit the wall on the other side.
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Old 06-18-2009, 04:40 AM   #137
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Unless you have a full factory chassis deal, its not very cheap to put your car through hell and back with a fast motor.

My home track is a tiny 10x15m, and even with 13.5 and 40 shore foams the chassis will wear...

Secondly, you need a lot of time on your side to master a consistant race with a modified motor, and for some that doesn't come easily.

(IMHO) One problem is that most tracks cannot accomodate the needs of mod and stock in the same meeting, the track ideally needs to be big and flowing for modified, and smaller and tighter for stock.

I don't see an easy answer, but why push yourself to race mod if your heart's not there... (yet).

As for me, some days my consistancy isnt there even with a 13.5, so I see no need for me to bump up just yet...
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Old 06-18-2009, 05:28 AM   #138
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Originally Posted by John St.Amant View Post
Excellent!!!!
21.5 VTA
17.5 Stock
13.5 SS (Super Stock) Duh! lol
7.5-10.5 MOD
All classes 2cell 7.4v 5300mAh 40c MAX
After all, if someone starts out slowly in VTA and gets good quickly, he will already have the packs to run anything! No speedo regulations so it will work for almost any class. I don't see any need for anything faster than an SPX with an 8.5 IMHO. Lets keep it below Mach one okay guys?
I don't think you want 1/12 stock to be 2s LiPo. Those would be ballistically fast, way too fast for beginners. That was the whole reason that 1/12 scale went from 6 cells to 4 cells, way too fast on 6 cells. And that was with yesterday's NiCD cells. Most tracks are already planning on 1s LiPo for 1/12 scale starting in the fall.
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Old 06-18-2009, 06:18 AM   #139
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I personally think the easiest thing to do is what the Grand Slam series did last season. Sure, it's not what the "Factory Guys" want, but put everyone in the same class and it turns out to be a dialed race.

2 main classes for foam tire:

17.5 (sponsored or not)... if you win points for the season, you MUST move to Pro the following season

10.5 (sponsored or not)... the premier class which was a lot of fun and plenty of power and close racing

Just my 2 cents.

http://www.northeastgrandslam.com/
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Old 06-18-2009, 06:57 AM   #140
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My reason for not accepting the mod challenge is LOFT, a common acronym for Lack of Frickin Talent!
Plus, for the average racer, maybe 2 or 3 races a month is not enough track time to handle full mod.
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Old 06-18-2009, 07:33 AM   #141
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Originally Posted by schreff View Post
I personally think the easiest thing to do is what the Grand Slam series did last season. put everyone in the same class and it turns out to be a dialed race.

2 main classes for foam tire:

17.5 (sponsored or not)... if you win points for the season, you MUST move to Pro the following season

10.5 (sponsored or not)... the premier class which was a lot of fun and plenty of power and close racing



http://www.northeastgrandslam.com/
Quote:
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for the average racer, maybe 2 or 3 races a month is not enough track time to handle full mod.

I agree with both of you especially with what the Grand Slam Series is all about. Taking a page from how it use to be back when Mod and Stock were the two big classes, whether it's 1/12 Scale or Sedan......... The formula simply works.

Plus I think there isn't enough track time and resources to the average racer to commit whats required to compete in Mod.......... 13.5 is popular at the club level scene because it's in between the stock and mod speeds. Many clubs/ race tracks consider 13.5 a intermediate class and keeps wear and tear down to a minimal and many of the experienced racers enjoy the bump in power.......... Plus many of the indoor carpet tracks don't have the room to accommodate Mod and discourages drivers from running it. It takes away the fun factor and close racing.
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Old 06-18-2009, 08:04 AM   #142
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We have seen on road dry up in our area because of the cost and speed of the cars. A factor that has not been talked about are the kits we are now racing. When we had a thriving On Road program in our region kits were much more affordable. TC3, G+, Yokomo MR4TC, ect were kits that were in the $200 range. Now a quality kit is double that price. We have seen electric offroad racing thrive with a kit cost of about that same. On road has became to difficult to get new racers into. The older kits were not as technical or expensive to maintain. The offroad racers use the same esc's, lipos, support equipment. The change has been the cost of the on road cars and how much they cost to maintain. It is easy to see how the VTA racing is getting people back into onroad....you do not need a high zoot car, equipment is controlled, speeds are racy and the cars look real. That was the formula for the evolution of the sedans. I was around for the Sedan "Big Bang" and that was what the draw was.

How does that relate to the Mod/Stock Issue. When you have more racers running on road. There is more need for having classes to separate the racers. Right now there are not enough people running these classes to give Mod level guys reason to run mod. Not a fun time to run with 2 other guys. We build the interest back in onroad then you see more need for the upper level classes.

Also where have all the US mod guys gone? There are still some very active on here like Josh, but where have the Baker's, Tosolini's, ect gone. Many of the faces of US Mod onroad are gone.
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Old 06-18-2009, 08:23 AM   #143
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Originally Posted by CarbonJoe View Post
No, stock needs to remain 17.5. I thought that the consensus was that 17.5 was plenty fast (almost too fast) for stock. Look at the lap times Josh posted above. Why would we make stock even faster with a 13.5, unless you're also considering 1s LiPo for stock?
*For 1:12 Stock use 13.5\1s Lipo with mah limit, battery should be used for both stock and mod classes.
*For Sedan Stock use 17.5\2s Lipo with mah limit, battery should be used for both stock and mod classes.

Mod classes should be able to run whatever motor they choose. This is the class that should push the envelope in rc technology and leave motor choice up to the racer.

World GT should be a 10.5\1s Lipo like the one used in 1:12.

There needs to be some limit on C rating and mah for LiPO's like the sub-c's have had throughout the years.
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Old 06-18-2009, 08:58 AM   #144
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Open Modified should be killed off, and replaced with a wider class separating SuperStock 8.5 or 10.5 to the Stock class 17.5.

Even in real automotive racing, "open" modified is a rarity, as almost everyone has to play within a certain rule set.

Is there honestly a need to force the Pro/fast racers to run a faster class/motor? No, Not really...

If the whole point of this discussion simply to an attempt to beat up on the Pro level guys to stop running in the slower classes just so slower guys have a chance to win at big races, it will fail.

Has anyone stopped to think that some of the Pro's may not want to run faster cars? The cars require more maintenance, and impacts can cost more money.

If you were a super fast consistent racer but your real job only paid you $10hr, and your sponsorship didn't give you anything other than a discount on parts, wouldn't you want the option to run a slower car to fit within you budget instead of being forced to race Modified, and at your expense?

If you want to have the Pro's in their own class, then create a new parallel class for them to enter into with a -Pro designator. These will be the same speed motors and equipment as the non-Pro classes, just faster for them since they are typically more consistent and faster on the same equipment anyway. Example, Stock-Pro and Superstock-Pro could be run along side Stock and Superstock. This would be an advantage for everyone, as the setups stay the same between the Pro and the non-Pro racers. The Pro class is the class to shoot for being promoted to, making the non-Pro classes essentially a Rookie type class to prove yourself in first.
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Old 06-18-2009, 09:15 AM   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MACHFIVE View Post
There needs to be some limit on C rating and mah for LiPO's like the sub-c's have had throughout the years.
Sub-C's have never have never been limited by ROAR. Mah and C limits in lipo mean absolutely nothing without a standard for rating the battery and testing for lipo batteries against those standards. Until then capacity and C limits are a joke. Nothing different here from the round cell days. numbers on batteries for marketing. The only other way to limit lipo is to decrease case size.
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Old 06-18-2009, 09:19 AM   #146
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The only other way to limit lipo is to decrease case size.
Not Really a solution, just temp fix. They are always figuring out how to get more capacity in the same space.
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Old 06-18-2009, 09:22 AM   #147
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I don't think you want 1/12 stock to be 2s LiPo. Those would be ballistically fast, way too fast for beginners. That was the whole reason that 1/12 scale went from 6 cells to 4 cells, way too fast on 6 cells. And that was with yesterday's NiCD cells. Most tracks are already planning on 1s LiPo for 1/12 scale starting in the fall.
Sorry but I never intended to put a 2 cell in a 1/12th car or any pan car for that matter. Just imagine how fast a CRC 1/10 WGT style car would be.....INSANEeven with a 13.5.

Round cells are on their way out , like it or not within a few years everyone will be using LiPos in everything raced.

Lets also not forget that even a 21.5 can be too fast for beginners.
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Old 06-18-2009, 09:35 AM   #148
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Sub-C's have never have never been limited by ROAR. Mah and C limits in lipo mean absolutely nothing without a standard for rating the battery and testing for lipo batteries against those standards. Until then capacity and C limits are a joke. Nothing different here from the round cell days. numbers on batteries for marketing. The only other way to limit lipo is to decrease case size.
ROAR kept changing the case sizes when the capacities went up on the sub "C" cells. Last I checked my so called sub C cells wouldn't even fit into my battery jig. Now your going to tell me that ROAR will stick with a maximum case size for lipos? Lets see how long that lasts? Is it apples and oranges or will they make cases bigger when some other new technology comes out . God I can't even think of the $$$$ I tossed away on cells. I do on the other hand like a uniform package with barrel connectors. Wires sticking out of the plastic case are too subject to damage and we all know what happens to a shorted lipo. Maybe its been far too long for ROAR to finalize the lipo issues.
It sucks trying to wedge a lithium polymer blast furnace into a modified to fit car.
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Old 06-18-2009, 09:40 AM   #149
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I know in F1, a few tracks were changed to slow it down.
I know in F1, many tracks are being deleted from the schedule because they were either not safe enough or couldn't accommodate facility to the teams.
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Old 06-18-2009, 10:20 AM   #150
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Originally Posted by MACHFIVE View Post
World GT should be a 10.5\1s Lipo like the one used in 1:12.
What are they running now? 2s/21.5 ? How would that compare to your powertrain suggestion?

You know guys for the most part I think Mod has dwindled because its so darn fast that either the drivers or the track, or the gear cant handle it. Or any combination of the afore mentioned circumstances. I do think there should be a class for the elite to shine, but at most tracks 13.5 provides plenty of challenge.
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