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Old 06-12-2009, 02:28 PM   #16
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It's all very interesting, but it's as much use a leg warmers to a snake!

Performance is a balance of so many things. Just think of road cars.

Car A has 200hp and car B has 150hp. Which is faster?

OK, car A weighs 1 ton, and Car B weighs 700kg. Which is faster?

Ah, but Car A has an FDR of 4.3, and Car B has an FDR of 4.1. Which is faster?

Hang on a sec, Car A has a petrol engine, and Car B has a diesel. Which is faster?

See what I mean? I have a 16 month-old LRP X11 10.5 motor, and it's never been seriously beaten for speed. However, I've bought three speedos in the same time to keep it that fast!

By all means go ahead and get all the numbers you like. All I'm saying is that will not lead you to the fastest motor for any situation. It's just data, and it's not information. Worst of all, it's not experience. As the old saying goes...

Data - this is a tomato.
Information - a tomato is a fruit.
Experience - you don't put tomato in a fruit salad.

Have fun!!
Yeah you're right. But, I'm trying to gather as much informations as it's possible about these motors. Some can be better for offroads, some for 1:12, some for indoor tight tracks some for outdoors. You know - every of them has edge somewhere else. That's also why I want to know conditions under which was motor used and compared to another one.
I'm not searching for universal best motor, but I'm trying to find which motor is best for which use. I hope you understand me.

Skiddins - yeah I hope that someone has - will have some results from dyno as well. Manufacturer specs were just to start thread.
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Old 06-12-2009, 03:10 PM   #17
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Remember when they said brushless would level the playing field, no tuning or differences between motors, and speed controls wouldn't matter anymore.
LOL!! And I was shouted down for saying it would end up this way - all software and no hardware problems at all. No, no they said, these motors need no maintenance (BS!) and will last for years - much cheaper than brushed. And as for the software, it would all be simple stuff - more BS.

And now they tell me LiPo is all simple technology, cheaper to run than NiMh and a level playing field for all. Guess what's going to happen...

lochness42 - knock yourself out! Not going to deliver what you want though... All I'm saying is the characteristics of the motor are delivered by the software, not the construction of the motor or its numbers. It's like having the chip in your road-car engine management system re-programmed - the numbers on the original engine don't mean squat!! Good luck, and have fun!
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Old 06-12-2009, 03:19 PM   #18
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Old 06-12-2009, 03:21 PM   #19
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lochness42 - knock yourself out! Not going to deliver what you want though... All I'm saying is the characteristics of the motor are delivered by the software, not the construction of the motor or its numbers. It's like having the chip in your road-car engine management system re-programmed - the numbers on the original engine don't mean squat!! Good luck, and have fun!
Yeah I know that software does make big difference - my switch from Sphere TC to SPX Stock Spec proved that, but you can't say that motor doesn't have any role in performance. Do you belive that you can get same performance from common Ford Fiesta as from Mclaren just by reprogramming chip? I also belive that some motors can survive reprogramming easily and some won't because they weren't designed that way (or some can provide bigger performance than others even after reprogramming).
I just don't want to waste time and money on motor that can't provide what I want.
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Old 06-12-2009, 03:24 PM   #20
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LOL!! And I was shouted down for saying it would end up this way - all software and no hardware problems at all. No, no they said, these motors need no maintenance (BS!) and will last for years - much cheaper than brushed. And as for the software, it would all be simple stuff - more BS.

And now they tell me LiPo is all simple technology, cheaper to run than NiMh and a level playing field for all. Guess what's going to happen...

lochness42 - knock yourself out! Not going to deliver what you want though... All I'm saying is the characteristics of the motor are delivered by the software, not the construction of the motor or its numbers. It's like having the chip in your road-car engine management system re-programmed - the numbers on the original engine don't mean squat!! Good luck, and have fun!
Yeas but they say it always when something is new.
The brushless is harder to find the right settings but i love it.
Brushed dropped down in a race brushless not.
The speedo is the most important thing and than the motor at the moment.
Only on big tracks the motor is more important than on the smaller tracks.
When you go on the 1/8 scale tracks choose a motor with a lot of RPM. you need it. The W is than less important.
Same speedo other motor. speed of the motor with more RPM's was a lot faster.
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Old 06-12-2009, 04:19 PM   #21
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Remember when they said brushless would level the playing field, no tuning or differences between motors, and speed controls wouldn't matter anymore.

Well , at least we don`t have to buy a motor each month because of their short life .

Maybe you

forgot bout those "Team" hand builts that no one could buy ?

Boy , That sure was fair racing spec style....



and

ESC have always been one better every year, will never change...



Please ,everything about brushless has been positive for our sport ....
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Old 06-12-2009, 04:27 PM   #22
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Maybe you

forgot bout those "Team" hand builts that no one could buy ?

Boy , That sure was fair racing spec style....
You don't seriously think that isn't still going on do you?

And now add "Team" speed controls and "Team" software profiles.

Yup the only thing it did was start everyone out at the same level for a short time, and cost some a pile of money for the "new" technology.
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Old 06-12-2009, 04:34 PM   #23
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lochness42 - knock yourself out! Not going to deliver what you want though... All I'm saying is the characteristics of the motor are delivered by the software, not the construction of the motor or its numbers. It's like having the chip in your road-car engine management system re-programmed - the numbers on the original engine don't mean squat!! Good luck, and have fun!
If you run the same ESC with various motors you will get different performance even if you use the same gearing and ESC settings etc. That's because not all motors are the same. If they were you could simply have said 'Buy any 10.5', but you know as well as everyone else that different motors have different characteristics.

These differences show up even more in TC than 1/12 where torque matters.
Hence someone asking for some real figures from a dyno using a load, not a BL equivalent of those crappy motor checkers.
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Old 06-12-2009, 05:12 PM   #24
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If you run the same ESC with various motors you will get different performance even if you use the same gearing and ESC settings etc. That's because not all motors are the same. If they were you could simply have said 'Buy any 10.5', but you know as well as everyone else that different motors have different characteristics.

These differences show up even more in TC than 1/12 where torque matters.
Hence someone asking for some real figures from a dyno using a load, not a BL equivalent of those crappy motor checkers.
You have it with all the motors. That was also with the brushed.
every motor has his own gearing.
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Old 06-13-2009, 08:31 AM   #25
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If you run the same ESC with various motors you will get different performance even if you use the same gearing and ESC settings etc. That's because not all motors are the same. If they were you could simply have said 'Buy any 10.5', but you know as well as everyone else that different motors have different characteristics.

These differences show up even more in TC than 1/12 where torque matters.
Hence someone asking for some real figures from a dyno using a load, not a BL equivalent of those crappy motor checkers.
I'm sure not all motors are the same, not even those that come from the same manufacturer.

lochness42 - no, a Ford Fiesta won't give you McLaren performance with a software switch, but that's not what you're doing. Your comparing all the 1.2 litre engines across the manufacturers (thread's called "10.5") and they can all be made faster with a simple software switch. More importantly, each different software change can be made to suit a track, and each different software writer will do something different to the other.

Go look at the speedo threads and what do you find? After each meeting, the same motors are going faster after each software switch!! No one has released a new motor for months, yet the factory drivers for the speedo makers are going faster at each race!!

It's far better, right now, to be on the right speedo. If you are, you can make any motor faster than someone on the wrong speedo...

Curiosity for facts never did anyone any harm, and only increases learning. I'm not saying it's worthless, I'm saying right now, speedo software facts are more valuable than motor facts. As I said, have fun.
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Old 06-13-2009, 10:14 AM   #26
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You don't seriously think that isn't still going on do you?

And now add "Team" speed controls and "Team" software profiles.

Yup the only thing it did was start everyone out at the same level for a short time, and cost some a pile of money for the "new" technology.

Brushless saved me a bigger pile of money than if had to still use brush motors.

At least for a short time spec has been even with brushless ..

Agree , never will be fair as Spec has a dim future in my opinion.

Those with a faster ESC , motors , battery, ect. Will be the norm specially in the bigger events ....


Mod will grow and replace spec as it is really the true spec class. Its the only class where a racers will win because their faster and better drivers...
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