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Old 06-22-2009, 03:22 PM   #16
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HI guys,
I thought I'd pop in and point out that the way the body mounts are fixed to the suspension will cause nothing but problems. The TC body now becomes part of the suspension and will cause serious binding.
If you are going for direct downforce to the wheels, you will have to use a floating body mount system like you will find on an 1/8th scale on road car.
This type of mount will allow for free movement of the suspension and still provide maximum loading to the tires rather than the springs. I assume this is what your intentions are?

Looks sweet though!!
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Old 06-22-2009, 05:03 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YoDog View Post
HI guys,
I thought I'd pop in and point out that the way the body mounts are fixed to the suspension will cause nothing but problems. The TC body now becomes part of the suspension and will cause serious binding.
If you are going for direct downforce to the wheels, you will have to use a floating body mount system like you will find on an 1/8th scale on road car.
This type of mount will allow for free movement of the suspension and still provide maximum loading to the tires rather than the springs. I assume this is what your intentions are?

Looks sweet though!!
Actually, back in my oval days we would mount the rear wing to the pod on wires coming up through holes in the body cut big enough to allow a full range of movement.

As for why the solid axle, rules. Independent rear suspension is illegal in pan car classes.
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Old 06-23-2009, 08:27 AM   #18
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You're right about the body mounts on my car,they're nothing but a PITB! I wanted a settup similar to an 1/8 scale but as you can see I missed the mark. I have two other mounting points at the rear of the car-unfortunately they will come out under the wing. Designing your own car is so much fun! Don
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Old 06-23-2009, 08:58 AM   #19
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Yes it is!!!



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Old 06-23-2009, 11:02 AM   #20
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could you please post some more pictures of that first car. Specially the back end looks interesting. Is it a panhard bar setup?

edit:
on second thought could i see some more pictures of the whole car? front suspension and back end?
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Old 06-23-2009, 01:15 PM   #21
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Nice job Pejota! Here's my other one: I've since found out a CC Sidewinder will not operate a 17.5 very well. But,it's not the fault of the SC. Don
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Why the non-independent rear suspension on 2-WD RC Cars-p1010001.jpg   Why the non-independent rear suspension on 2-WD RC Cars-p1010002.jpg   Why the non-independent rear suspension on 2-WD RC Cars-p1010003.jpg   Why the non-independent rear suspension on 2-WD RC Cars-p1010004.jpg  
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Old 06-23-2009, 02:07 PM   #22
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On large clean tracks (with a lot of grip), nothing is as fast as a 10th pancar. With a low wind brushless and a good lipo, you can chase 8th scale onroad nitros
On "slippery" tracks, independent rear suspension cars can probably generate more grip in the back.

Real Nascar cars are also a bit of pancar, just with the motor in front.

You can't compare open wheelers and group C/lmp cars. The regulations (and the money) say how fast a car can be.
Without any rules, an open wheeler will never reach a closed car. Aerodynamics of closed cars are lot better. The wheels of a formula cars generate a lot of drag.
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Old 06-23-2009, 09:20 PM   #23
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"On large clean tracks (with a lot of grip), nothing is as fast as a 10th pancar. With a low wind brushless and a good lipo, you can chase 8th scale onroad nitros
On "slippery" tracks, independent rear suspension cars can probably generate more grip in the back."

There is a lot of truth in that. A local guy was running his 1/12th out there with a 9T/LiPo with the 1/8 gang and for the most part (the infield) they were in his way and he could still hang with them on the straights. It was great to watch it.
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Old 06-24-2009, 08:50 AM   #24
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Really cool stuff in here. I have to read more of it when I get some more time.

Well, pods are way easyer and lighter. Less parts and drag.

Rear pod. 2 bearings, 1 axle, two hubs and a shock.
Independent rear. 4 axle bearings and 2 out drive bearings. Cv joint, axle and outdrive to wear out and add weight. Then add the arm, upper link and 2 shocks.

This is why we have sedans. 4wheel independent suspention. Honestly, 1/12th is my favorite chassis. Super light and easy to tune. Just got into pan cars this winter and fell in love. Wouldnt change a thing, now we have lipo/brushless anyway.

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Old 06-24-2009, 06:52 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imjonah View Post
2. A Related question Formula 1 is by far the fastest road course chassis style and its close cousin the Indy car chassis the oval, yet the F1 open wheel style 2WD chassis seems slower when talking about 1/10 scale.

3. Is there some other factor which ROAR rules outlaw but if used on 1/10 scale would make them much faster some kind of braking system not dependent on the motor. Some kind of electronic traction control device or gyro. Wider track relative to wheel base? Over size tires? Extreme weight reduction?

In otherwords what would a no limits no holds bared 1/10 scale on road racer look like?
In terms of system parameters, what does an optimized Full Scale car look like? It has the lowest mass and the highest power to weight ratio. It has the stickiest possible tires and makes the most downforce. Beyond that it is highly tuned.

Scale Down Mass at Constant Density of Materials:

m_L = m_B * 1/1,000

the mass of the little car goes down by the scale fraction cubed.

Many cars benefit from lower density materials at small scale. The F1 car uses the lowest density materials of any 1/1, so you don't get as much boost in this style by using low density materials at 1/10.

A tire with less weight on it has more cornering power, meaning it can pull more g's in a turn. The F1 car takes advantage of this at 1/1, and all 1/10 scale cars benefit from much greater mechanical grip because the weight comes down by 1/1000. A good 1/10 car can pull at least 2 g's with no downforce, a great 1/1 car might get 1.4 g's mechanical grip in low speed flat turn.

The Lift Coefficient and Drag Coefficient should not change if the shape of the body and under-side are exactly the same at both scales. Of course the 1/10 scale builder doesn't spend $$ in the wind tunnel, and the under-side is usually much different.

Chances are an F1 style design would be fastest at any scale if you had the budget to do research and development and put all the parts together to get the lowest mass, best mechanical grip, highest power to weight ratio, and best downforce with the least drag. But maybe there is a limit on optimizing at a smaller scale, such as all cars using about the same density of materials at small scale.
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