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Old 06-07-2009, 03:16 PM   #1
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Default Which 12th to get?

As I want to buy a new 12th scale, I did some research on good and bad points of the modern cars, but I'm still not certain of which one to get.

BMI DB12RR:
+ : doesn't tweak, strong, a lot of titanium/IRS options, possible LiFe-Po fitting under shock, brushless pod
- : ?

CRC GenX:
+ : lots of set-ups, LiFe-Po fitting under shock, brushless pod, ?
- : can tweak, ?

Xray XII:
+ : great quality, supplied set-up guide, proven design, thrust bearing, good diff
- : can tweak, 2mm chassis, have to use Ni-MH

I'm driving on medium-high grip carpet, with a 10,5. Any advice on other good and bad points of these cars? I read link cars are better for carpet racing, is this just personal or faster for most people?
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Old 06-07-2009, 07:43 PM   #2
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with the transformation to lipos for 1/12th scale cars upon us now, the lipo batterys that are currently available drop right in to the current side link cars. by contrast, the tbar designs are not well suited to the lipos that are available at this point. It remains to be seen if anybody is going to offer a saddle pack lipo that will fit well in a tbar chassis. For that reason, the side link designs would seem to be the best choice these days. And even if not for the lipo issue, the sidelink designs have been winning most all of the races lately anyhow. I prefer the CRC, but the Associated 12R5 is a very good choice and lots of club racers like their BMI's (although BMI doesn't usually place many cars up front at major races). The main thing would be to pick a car that is supported by your local hobby shop and/or one that the better racers in your area run. It's really handy to get setup help from the fast guys were you run, and there's also the issue of borrowing a part if you happen to need something that you don't have and that the hobby shop doesn't stock. Happy motoring. The good news is that all of the current cars are really good. Just get the one you like best, and go for it.
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Old 06-07-2009, 07:51 PM   #3
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I would get the GEN-X
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Old 06-07-2009, 07:53 PM   #4
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SpeedMerchant Rev.5 LiPo version.

The Rev5L is hands down the toughest car on the market, is the first to market with a LiPo specific chassis, and is more adjustable than any other car on the market, period. It uses standard screws, shims, and bearings throughout for easy maintenance.
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Old 06-07-2009, 08:09 PM   #5
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I would get the GEN-X
The Gen-X is a great car, but has several weaknesses when involved in impacts, mostly in the front end.

The front aluminum dual axles bend on hard impacts, and the threads that hold the front wheels on can strip over time or impacts. The front axles are 3/16", requiring a smallish 3/16" x 5/16" bearing that damages easily compared to the standard, beefier, 1/8" x 5/16" bearing. The King Pins are screw in type which use a specially sized bronze set screw to lock them in, and these seem to loosen up unexpectedly from time to time, and also can be easily stripped with the soft bronze. The front suspension uses multiple plastic parts; the upper and lower arms, and caster blocks are all breakables. The lower also arm uses a delrin ball for the kingpin to slide through, which needs periodic replacement, and can be ruined on insertion. The front suspension also uses pivot balls in the upper arm, again bendable, and if replaced with the Titanium version, even more bendable. Moving towards the middle of the car, the side-links are molded plastic and wear quickly for a sloppy pod. These can be replaced with an adjustable type. The rear of the car is solid, no complaints.
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Old 06-07-2009, 08:23 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kn7671 View Post
SpeedMerchant Rev.5 LiPo version.

The Rev5L is hands down the toughest car on the market, is the first to market with a LiPo specific chassis, and is more adjustable than any other car on the market, period. It uses standard screws, shims, and bearings throughout for easy maintenance.
I'll +1 this any day
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Old 06-07-2009, 11:56 PM   #7
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This comes up all the time and all the respones are the same, get the car I'm driving because its the best. The truth is all the current cars on the market are good and can win on any given day at any level. Buy the car that you can get the best parts/help with local; O' and I run the BMI so buy that

Quote:
Originally Posted by vafactor View Post
although BMI doesn't usually place many cars up front at major races
While this statment is true to some extent its misleading. The reason the BMI car does'nt show up on the podoum all the time is because Jason does'nt have loads of paid or sponsered drivers where CRC, AE, Speedmerchant all do. Besides those results meen very little anyway, all of those paid/sponsered drivers are at the extreme pointy end of the stick and could win with any car you give them to drive. Its what the average driver can so with a car that matters.
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Old 06-08-2009, 02:36 AM   #8
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I'm just an average driver so I know I can't get the maximum out of a car (which 95% of the drivers can't), so winning Euros, Worlds, IIC etc. isn't really an issue I think.
We aren't running Li-Po here in Europe for racing untill the winter season of 2010 probably, but I do intend to use LiFe-Po for training and just fun.
We have some good drivers here, but almost everyone is using different cars, so I'll use the internet to search for tips and set-ups. My local hobby shop isn't supporting BMI and CRC, but I can get these parts from UK, US,...

My main question is: does the T-bar design offer an advantage for medium skilled racers on carpet? In the RC Racing TV interview, Andy Moore said a T-bar car is just easier to set-up. I do have considered all cars available now, but the SpeedMerchant (no one uses it over here), Associated (have to buy brushless pod etc., have had the car before), Hot Bodies (I prefer Xray),... are for various reasons not an option. So I'll stick to CRC, BMI or Xray. Any specific comments on these cars?

Thanks!
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Old 06-08-2009, 02:58 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by potloodslijper View Post
Associated (have to buy brushless pod etc.,...)

lol why? whats difference it make to u?

u HAVE TO have support for ur car in ur country, otherwise u have to like to waiting for parts for weeks... thats not cool

what u are thinking about serpent s120? i heard many positive opinion about this car
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Old 06-08-2009, 03:45 AM   #10
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Just for the record, I have 1 driver that attends 1 national event per year. He podiums every time. This is being highly outnumbered and yet managed
2nd place overall in 1/12th and 3rd overall in 1/10th pan. The car is capable of winning at national events. I do not put alot of emphasis on large events because the guys who win them are not customers. National events are a way of the manufacturers flexing muscles. I am not into that game. So please dont be misguided by feeling that the car is not capable. All of the cars are very good and all of the manufacturers try there best to put out a good car. It really does come down to which car you like and if you can get parts for it.

You will enjoy this class with any car you choose. The important thing is that you are happy with your choice and have fun. This is what its all about.
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Old 06-08-2009, 04:22 AM   #11
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Quote:
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lol why? whats difference it make to u?

u HAVE TO have support for ur car in ur country, otherwise u have to like to waiting for parts for weeks... thats not cool
Parts are here in max. 1 week, so that's not a problem. A balanced rear pod designed to fit brushless motors really is something even medium skilled drivers feel, I noticed the difference on a friend's CRC.

@Jason: on RC Racechat (UK forum) people have indeed confirmed that the car is fast, but even if it lacks the speed to get that last 0,03 seconds on big races, it won't affect most peoples results, as you have to be a Rheinard, Moore or top driver in general to benefit from this. I prefer an easy to drive, strong and stable car, which the BMI seems to be.
Do most BMI drivers use tape or the standard battery fitting system? I read here somewhere that a crash can 'throw' the battery up, resulting in damaged center shocks.
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Old 06-08-2009, 04:48 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by potloodslijper View Post
Parts are here in max. 1 week, so that's not a problem. A balanced rear pod designed to fit brushless motors really is something even medium skilled drivers feel, I noticed the difference on a friend's CRC.

but thats in ony for linkage version of 12r5 right? can use it on t-plate conv?
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Old 06-08-2009, 04:54 AM   #13
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Alot of guys do seem to use the tape when it comes to making sure nothing goes wrong. We have the option to use both the tape or the Oring. Our new Lipo chassis will have the option for both also.

Please understand that in the UK and US i do not put any emphasis on the larger events. I dont knock others for doing so but i really cant take any heat for not winning large events if i dont have drivers there. None of the car manufacturers win national or world events with paying customers. I dont feel that our car should be judged at a national level or world level with paying customers either. This is a very difficult subject to talk about without offending other companies. I really do not want to offend anyone. I just want to get my point across as this subject comes up every time. Please understand my concerns.
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Old 06-08-2009, 05:54 AM   #14
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Like I said, lots of club racers are happy with their BMI's. They do seem to run good out of the box and they appear to be perhaps a bit easier for a new guy to build right and get set up right. But, for whatever reason, they just don't seem to show up in numbers at the major races. That's not a knock on the car, it's just an observation. Take it at face value. As many have stated, the main thing is to get a car that you believe in and that you can easily get support for. That's support both in terms of parts supply and also in terms of setup help from the experienced guys wherever you race. As they say, "life's too short to make all the mistakes yourself. It's better to learn from the mistakes that have already been made by others". Most experienced racers will be more than happy to help a new guy. Everybody wants the sport to grow and the key to it is making sure that everybody in attendance is having fun and doing their best (a big part of having fun).
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Old 06-08-2009, 06:06 AM   #15
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BMI DB12RR it is then!
@Jason: do you sometimes place the DB12RR on a tweak station? Apparently the car can't be tweaked (expect when you break your chassis ). And where can I buy a front stabilizer, as it doesn't seem to be in the box.

I was wondering why most Futaba drivers use the S9650, the S9602 is slightly faster, a bit cheaper and has metal gears?
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