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Old 12-27-2003, 07:37 PM   #46
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a great thread guys...

i understand the points made here, but wonder if the potential value of the tool (fantom or otherwise) is not being missed..

there would be a swag (australian term for "many" ) variables that could affect the results from dyno to dyno

rather than saying in absolute terms the numbers are crook (australian term for "bad" ) perhaps they shoud be viewed in comparative terms...

here is a link to a graph off the fantom ive been using, the numbers are not important but what i see as important is the grey line forming the comparision between the first and second runs...

surely you would rather hit the track with the coloured graph motor than the grey graph motor (same motor just a re-true)?

again i would stress the absloute numbers are not what matters but that i can see a beneficial change is important, a change worth investigating at the track?

in regard to trinitys numbers the epic binary and d5 that i have tried, one is spot on trinitys sticker claims the other is a disaster (to the point where im sure something is very very wrong somewhere)!
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Old 12-27-2003, 09:56 PM   #47
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I have a question for you all. I have a chance to buy an integy dyno, and was wondering if i should buy it, its only 50 dollars and in almost new condition. Has anyone heard about this dyno? Let me know if i should spend my 50 bucks.
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Old 12-28-2003, 04:15 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally posted by vtl1180ny
I'm going to guess that 20,000 not 2000....


He was out accelerating you because he had more torque at a lower RMP... You had to spin up 3000 more RPM and you still didn't have as much torque... On a tight track, his motor is a much better choce... You'd have to gear higher to match him, havng equal rollout definitely gave him the advantage... You'd have been better off with a ratio over 9.2 to take advantage of the added RPM.... In my eyes your motor's numbers weren't better than his, I'd have used his in a heartbeat...

Did you stay with the same rollout? Your second motor was definitely better, there was only a 1000 RPM gap and from what you posted you had a slightly higher rollout to take advantage of it...

The dyno read fine, it was more like you didn't see the whole picture...

my sorry 20,000.
he had more torque then my 1st motor but my point was that both motors had good numbers.
just different.bcause one had hi torque and the other higher rpm.
so it all depends on the track conditions etc.
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Old 12-28-2003, 04:22 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally posted by vtl1180ny
I'm going to guess that 20,000 not 2000....


He was out accelerating you because he had more torque at a lower RMP... You had to spin up 3000 more RPM and you still didn't have as much torque... On a tight track, his motor is a much better choce... You'd have to gear higher to match him, havng equal rollout definitely gave him the advantage... You'd have been better off with a ratio over 9.2 to take advantage of the added RPM.... In my eyes your motor's numbers weren't better than his, I'd have used his in a heartbeat...

Did you stay with the same rollout? Your second motor was definitely better, there was only a 1000 RPM gap and from what you posted you had a slightly higher rollout to take advantage of it...

The dyno read fine, it was more like you didn't see the whole picture...

he beat me but i coulda gone past a overall gear ratio of over 9.2 then it would be about equall.
in the final i kept the ODR the same.
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Old 12-28-2003, 04:39 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally posted by Brian Miskolczi
I have a question for you all. I have a chance to buy an integy dyno, and was wondering if i should buy it, its only 50 dollars and in almost new condition. Has anyone heard about this dyno? Let me know if i should spend my 50 bucks.
It's not a dyno, just a motor checker (i.e it's readings are taken under no load).
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Old 12-28-2003, 06:24 AM   #51
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Contact,


The fantom numbers aren't just being questioned becuse they don't match what other dynos give, they are questioned because they are don't give results that are credible even when you compare them in realitive terms. The fantom seems to give preferance to motors that have some pertiulcar RPM and/or reach some perticular RPM in some predetermined time period. Bottom line is it's numbers are not consistant or beleivable in many situations.
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Old 12-28-2003, 04:20 PM   #52
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so DynoMoHum your saying that the changes i observed (see the graph) in the fantom mod MAY not be real, as the dyno is fundamentally unreliable? my arguement would be that regardless of the numbers (what do they mean anyway! ) if the dyno shows reletaive change then its really achieving all that is important... but reliability is important for that goal to be achieved.

all dynos use the motors rotational forces to measure "whaterver"... what exactly makes the fantom different to the rest? do you think its mechanical or software?
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Old 12-28-2003, 05:39 PM   #53
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Alright, I guess I'd better say my piece again since no one seemed to read it the first time....I'm not trying to dispute you, DynoMo, but after what I've seen from people using the Fantom dyno, they seem to be no more or less reliable or repeatable than my Robitronics. I have(on several occaisions) had a chance to pick the brain of Troy Schroeder(& he IS Fantom, by the way) & do a few direct comparison tests with MY motors on both my Robi & his Fantom, & sure enough, the motors that ran good on mine, also ran equally good on his(in fact, he was legitimately impressed with the tuning I did on one of them, & needless to say I was VERY happy with that particular motor). As with ANY tool, it's NOT the raw numbers it puts out, but how you INTERPRET them that makes all the difference, & not everyone will be able to interpret the data from the Fantom as well as the Robi(or vice versa), & sometimes NEITHER will give you the data that counts the most, how well it'll REALLY run in the car. There simply IS NO PERFECT TOOL......
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Old 12-29-2003, 06:00 AM   #54
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Contact and others,

Yes I'm saying that the Fantom's data is fundementaly flawed in some way. I am not the only person who beleives this. I honestly don't know what causes it, that is wether it is a software bug, or some error involved with data collection hardware, etc...


I've also tried to explain that I fully realise that people can and do use the Fantom very effectively, regardless of it's flaws. I also have tried to explain that I beleive that if the Fantom is all I had to use, then I too beleive I could learn to make motors go faster usiing it.

Given all that I still don't trust the numbers it gives. I use my dyno as much for theortical learning as I do for determining on track proformance. I am not sure you can trust the fantom to help explain motor theory becuase of it's flaws.
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