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Old 02-13-2002, 01:13 PM   #61
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Donut,easy on da name callin K....

Bridgewater & Scott Brown are just about most experience racer`s in the state of Washington....

Both of those guy`s never have said foams are for racers who can`t drive...
They will repeat what I said however , its cheaper & more fair to race on rubber`s than foams...

You don`t like tunin your car for rubber but will spend days at the track tuning for foam & spends $$$ `s to drive twice as far just to run foam.... You got more mooo-la than me bro....
You know our track has half the traction you got up north ,yet I still can`t believe you guys need more traction, thus foam`s....

Go ahead & say stuff like rubber is good for 10 run`s & foams last like 50 or 60 runs... I don`t believe it.....Cus I just got done going the fastest yet on rubber with 60 runs....Ooo sure they are faster when brand new ,but they don`t really slow down enought to stop my ride from being fast...

But guess you won`t be attending carpet regionals cus you don`t like to race on rubber, thats just tooooo bad!
Guess R/c plus would agree with me on this tire issue as well....

Nice to know I`m not the only one who agree`s with Chris & Scott......
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Old 02-13-2002, 02:31 PM   #62
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Cost differential of Foam vs. Rubber: Let's see, average price for four foams (glued & trued)=$45 vs. average price of four rubber tires,inserts,rims,(not including glue and rubber bands to hold the tires on)=$50.
Initial Cost Advantage Goes TO: Foams (by $7)
Competitive runs without losing more than .1sec/lap (for TC that's about 1/3-3/8 of a lap): Let's see, average runs on foam shaved down to big race depth (and even if they get chunked) =40 (and by the way the chuncks can be re-glued with CA) Average competitive runs on rubber=20 (and this number would be less actually at big races where it is common for the Big Boys to "scuff" the tires with a file on what? A TIRE TRUER to make them fast starting with the very first lap!!!! Even when they are racing CARPET).
Initial Competitive Number Of Run Usage Goes TO: Foams (by 20+ runs)
Time envolved with assembly? Let's see: Foams=0 (glued & Trued). Rubber= 5min/tire. Lower Assembly Time Goes TO: Foam (by 20min). Finally, there is: The competitive advantages that can be gained through all of the variable compound/insert/assembly techniques alone. Let's see: Foams=6 compounds/0 inserts/0 assembly techniques. Rubber(do you really want to count them all? LOL)= 15 or so competitive componds/15+ inserts/at least 3 techniques (not including all of the secret ways of rounding/dremeling the insert edges, putting various holes in the rims at certain places, using different rims for different flex characteristics with different inserts and compounds for different tracks.
Number of competitive advantages that can be gained through selection and prep Goes TO: Rubber (by the way it cost a lot more to figure that stuff out and have the neccessary inventory to utilize it so Foam wins in lowered cost on this point too). AND THE WINNER OF THE LOWEST COST FACTOR IS: FOAM BY A LANDSIDE!!!!
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Old 02-13-2002, 03:16 PM   #63
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darnold, all those factors considered, I think your right on!!!

I think what Cherry thinks is you need to cut your foams super small for them to be fast, and thats just not true. I start mine at like 61mm, witch is bigger than most, and I go just as fast with them as when they get to 56mm......

but I also think rubbers last many many runs before I notice them slowing down, so I dont really care what we run. but money Is not an issue for me like some other people. I just like how fast and under control foams are in mod.

what ive noticed at our track is, beginners and sportsmen level racers prefer rubber and experts prefer foam....

both are fun but I like to go as fast as possible!!!!!
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Old 02-13-2002, 04:11 PM   #64
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I used to run foams on my tamiya f103, and I had to keep buying new tires because they wore out so quickly, especially the front ones. I didn't know why, so I just ended up switching to their rubber tires. The tires seem to last FOREVER. I haven't even used up one set! Maybe 60 runs on them.. they still work well, so I'm not complaining! There also is no insert issue with that tire. The stock insert works fine, there aren't any other choices anyway. With this car, a good driver can pretty much match the mod TCs, using only a silver 540 motor! Plus, the new F1 is coming out with grooved tires... you can't beat that for coolness...
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Old 02-13-2002, 04:45 PM   #65
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Potato,
You have to look at the current stable of FOAM compounds available to us. You get way more use out of them than you do any rubber tire and you get the performance the same from first run to last. Check out Darnold's post again and you will see why FOAM is better than rubber.
IKE
P.S.George there isnt any name callin going on here that I dont use when I am standing in front of Scotty and Chris. Just friendly ribbing is all I wasnt trying to hurt anyones feelings. As for the RUBBER tires at regionals THAT IS THE ROAR RULES not theirs.

Last edited by FoamDonuts; 02-13-2002 at 04:47 PM.
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Old 02-13-2002, 05:38 PM   #66
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What gives foam the advantage? How does foam interact with the surface of the track? Are they temperature rated or hardness rated?.. And what would provide the same performance as Sorex 36Rs?
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Old 02-13-2002, 06:10 PM   #67
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Potato,
The foam tires are hardness or SHORE rated. They offer a larger contact patch at all times than the rubber tires and they are better able to deal with the heat of outdoor tracks. Plus one of the other many added advantages of FOAM is they are the same compound from start to finish they dont fade away like a rubber tire does. Darnold, will have to chime in here and tell you what FOAM tire will give you the same performance of the 36's
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Old 02-13-2002, 07:00 PM   #68
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To be honest even a Red Dot (hard outdoor compound) would give better traction I think than a Sorex 36. Maybe a 20 might get a little close and around the Chicago Land area with all of the nationally fast guys here (Jim Dieter of Trinity lives in Joliet) nobody really runs anything less than a 25 in most cases on carpet. That is when people do run rubber which is about a 50/50 proposition around here for TC racing. Sorex's are great rubber tires btw as I am sure everyone knows. I think FoamDonut hit it on the head though concerning the larger contact patch. Also foam tires are softer and I think they have a greater amount of large molecule links that allow for more friction and thus more grip. Foam tires are far more porus than Rubber tires. Also the inserts that Rubber Tires use are pretty interesting because they are essentially acting as the "air" for the rubber carcass. Due to the normal fitting of these inserts compared to the contour of the rubber tire you don't get all of the traction that the tire may normally try to give I think. That's why building techniques can really yield some impressive performance gains and also part of why it's so expensive. Trial and Error usually cost more than known procedures but has the opportunity for increased gain as well.
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Old 02-13-2002, 08:12 PM   #69
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Foams are more expensive and pretty messy but they do hook up. However you can get rubber to hook up pretty good also, it just takes more effort. Both are fun to run so I could go either way.
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Old 02-13-2002, 08:16 PM   #70
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since you have such a laid back attitude about it, let me respectfully point you to Darnold's post with the cost of FOAM vs Rubber. At my LHS the FOAMS run 32dollars for a set of 4 wheels and tires that are mounted glued trued and balanced. It is twice that much for rubber plus that doesnt include the glue and the extra time. Anywho just thought I would chime in again. HEHEHEHHEHEHEHEHE.
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Old 02-13-2002, 08:38 PM   #71
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you know, the thing that i hate about these threads, is that people only hear what they want to hear, and then make up stuff about what some people say.... or they assume that people think one thing for certain reasons, when its the complete opposite....

Foams or Rubber its all racing, its just a different approach at it. Natually everyone's got their oppions on one thing or another, and i've got no problem with people voicing their oppinions, but quote yourself not others, let them voice their own oppinions if they want to be heard, they will be heard,
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Old 02-13-2002, 09:16 PM   #72
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Teambighead- Hey how are things going up there. I've heard WA. is a beautiful. I agree with you about the two forms being a personal issue. That's exactly what I and others have said. It just seems that people have made some statements that simply aren't true but should have no bearing on whether they race one type or the other. Foams actually cost less to buy and run and they are more consistent in the performance envelope than rubber. However. this should in no way be the determining factor that sets track policy. People should have an option to run either (or 12th scale, yeah, LOL). There seems to be this issue that didn't exist when I got out of the hobby back in 89/90' but that I have consistently experienced since coming back in Jan 99'. That issue seems to revolve around "only the most popular class gets to run at the local track". And this syndrome seems to necessitate that people have to "convert" people over to their way of running. In turn I have heard some pretty weird stuff about why people should not run other forms and classes and they usually have not recently been even tried them out. Thus this debate which really isn't a debate. Foams costs less than rubber so what is it that's really at issue here? What are some of yours or anyone elses thoughts?
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Old 02-13-2002, 09:42 PM   #73
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I only got one word for you BIGHEAD. WHATEV!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!hehehehehhe I feel the same to each his own and what it comes down to is, can you be the best at each discipline, that is all that matters who is first.
IKE
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Old 03-08-2002, 02:28 AM   #74
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Well, since the FOAM RUBBER business is hurting right now I have to revert and run rubber tires oh well, I gunna run the CS22 prebuilts for races and when I go to carpet nats here SOOON(ut oh better start packing)I am gunna have to race on the CS27's oh well.
IKE
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Old 03-08-2002, 06:10 AM   #75
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Which "shore" would you guys recommend for touring-cars on an outside track, were we usually run sorex 28 or lower to get any grip at all? Our shop has from 30 to 45 shore. And, would you recommend any traction compound?
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