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Old 02-09-2002, 04:57 PM   #31
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Foams last longer for TCs? Do you add traction compound every run? What are are the foam equivalent of say Sorex 36R tires? Do they last as long as the sorexes? I'm not talking 'first 3 runs performance' I mean running the tires down until the belt shows lifespan. So, versus a rubber tire used its entire life (up to almost the belt), how long do foams last?
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Old 02-09-2002, 05:05 PM   #32
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Originally posted by Potato
Foams last longer for TCs? Do you add traction compound every run? What are are the foam equivalent of say Sorex 36R tires? Do they last as long as the sorexes? I'm not talking 'first 3 runs performance' I mean running the tires down until the belt shows lifespan. So, versus a rubber tire used its entire life (up to almost the belt), how long do foams last?
The problem isn't how long they'll last until the belt is showing. After the first 3 or 4 runs that Sorex will be measurably slower than when new. Why would you even want to run it down to the belt, anything after the first few runs is not going to be competitive.

Foams will run essentially the same from the first run to the last. Yes, you'll have to adjust ride height and gearing as they get smaller, but they're just as fast on the 30th run as the first.

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Old 02-09-2002, 05:30 PM   #33
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Trips......sorry to disagree with you on this one.....but Sorex (and other brands of rubber tires) do NOT slow down on carpet or asphalt after the first 3-4 runs.

My year old 20/24/28 sorex tires are as fast as any other tire out there...bar none.....and not because they are mine either.

.....and this is not the "defend the Sorex tire" club either.

We run in hot weather on the asphalt as well.......the Sorex does NOT slow down like other name brands.
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Old 02-09-2002, 06:30 PM   #34
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I'm not worried about being competitive, I just want to run around the track with resonable performance. I mostly practice, anyway, since my schedule won't allow much racing. I don't have the money to change tires often, I usually just buy one good set for practice and use them until they almost gone. For competition I might use more than one set of rubbers (they don't allow foams).. So basically what I'm asking is for my practice sessions, what would give me the best price/performance?

Also, I don't doubt that rubber tires lose performance after a few runs.. but why? It's the same material from the outside all the way down to the belt. I know when the tire is new it's shiny and sticky because the outside surface is smooth, and after it's worn down it's not as sticky anymore, but that doesn't mean the material has changed, it's only the surface of the material is rougher. Since we're not racing on some super smooth surface like glass, can this increased roughness really make a difference?
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Old 02-09-2002, 06:59 PM   #35
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Potato: you made me remember something. It doesn't matter weather I like foams or not, they don't allow them at any of our local tracks. At least not in the classes I run in.

Here I think mod. sedan, F1/pan car and Expert Nitro get the nod for foam usage.

F1 is about the only time I've run foams. No I'm running the rubber F1 tires as well.
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Old 02-09-2002, 08:37 PM   #36
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acloco,

The Sorex tires I ran on asphalt last season definitely got slower after several runs. The 20's were 3-4 tenths off the pace by the third run, the 24's went 3 runs and fell of by the fourth and the 36's made 5 or 6 runs before I could measure the difference, but I did see it.

I'm open to the possibility that some other factor was involved... if so I'd love to figure out what it was, because if the Sorexes can really last like you're saying it will make me very happy when outdoor season comes around.

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Old 02-09-2002, 09:00 PM   #37
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Trips,
What was the track temperature throughout the day? You have to change inserts....hotter the track....harder the inserts.
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Old 02-10-2002, 12:44 AM   #38
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I don't think it was a temerature thing... I noticed it with a set of 28's where I ran 3 qualifiers on them then ran the mains on 20's (this was outdoor night racing in September, and the track got pretty cold for the mains)

The very next weekend, the same 28's, same car, and I was off the pace in the first two rounds of qualifying. I built a new set of 28's, same rims and inserts as the ones on the car, switched to the new tires, no other changes, and TQ'd in the third round. Averaged 4 tenths faster a lap on the new tires. The old tires had exactly three runs from the week before and one practice run.

I'm wondering if I need to store them in some special way between race days... I just took them off the car and put em in a ziploc bag between race days.

Another thing... Are you using any sort of traction compound on yours?

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Old 02-10-2002, 02:09 AM   #39
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Trips,
I generally do not run traction compound....except on asphalt...but only rarely. We use tire warmers.....and temp must be just right or any tire will overheat quickly on the track.

Really need to know the track temperature to help more.

What inserts? What car?

Generally, if you are using 20's to get hooked up, your suspension is too stiff of a setup....go to lighter oil and/or springs.

Any tire compound near 20's will wear out fast on asphalt.....regardless of brand.
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Old 02-10-2002, 02:10 AM   #40
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I tried out Sorex`s for the first time last week...

Lap times were good .
This week same tires with 6 extra runs and they went even faster...
Runing -um on Ozite...

Are big foams as fast as cut down foams????
Heck no,we all learn that with the pan cars ....
So whats different now?
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Old 02-10-2002, 05:00 AM   #41
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acloco,

Best I can remember, the track surface temp was 74 or so for the first two rounds, dropping to the low 60's by hte third, and into the 50's by the time the mains started.

I know the surface was so cold that if you didn't have warmers on the tires before setting the car down for the main you were on ice for two or three laps.

The car was my XXX-S, I was running Yok 037F inserts. I'm thinking now that maybe the inserts were too firm for the conditions?

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Old 02-10-2002, 11:12 AM   #42
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Trips, definitely too hard of insert.

You could have ran 36's with Echo Reds.....with tire warmers though.
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Old 02-10-2002, 10:53 PM   #43
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When I was working the hobby shop in Texas I remember two types of Echo inserts, a thick and a thin. Would you run the thick or the thin in Sorex tires?

Now I'm looking forward to asphalt season, I think with the right inserts I'll be able to get more than a few runs out of a set of tires...

Thanks,

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Old 02-10-2002, 11:53 PM   #44
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Hmm....don't know that answer off the top of my head. I believe it is the thicker of the two though..........there should be just a slight air gap between the tire and the insert....not much...just some.

On another note about any TC tire mounted up....drill a COUPLE of air holes. Helps to keep the tire consistent throughout the run. Tires and inserts do heat up during a run.......so they need a little air to breathe as well. Try it....yuz just might like it.

The air holes really help to keep the tires consistent throughout the run......regardless if ran on carpet or asphalt.
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Old 02-11-2002, 05:24 PM   #45
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From Potato...Also, I don't doubt that rubber tires lose performance after a few runs.. but why? It's the same material from the outside all the way down to the belt. I know when the tire is new it's shiny and sticky because the outside surface is smooth, and after it's worn down it's not as sticky anymore, but that doesn't mean the material has changed, it's only the surface of the material is rougher. Since we're not racing on some super smooth surface like glass, can this increased roughness really make a difference?

In response to this Rubber can only go through so many Heat Cycles before it starts to break down. This is why some tires are only good for 1 to 2 runs. Tires have alot of OIL in the rubber and when it gets hot it comes to the surface and gets rubbed off by the surface you race on. Once the oil is gone the chemical makeup of the rubber has changed and its not the same as it started out as. If you have ever raced on Proline S3 tires on a really hot day in the summer and after 1 run they are junk.....there is still plenty of rubber on the tire but the oil is gone and the rubber has changed compound. So its not really that the tire does not have any good rubber on it, its that the compound/traction has chnged do to heat.

And I like Foam tires better b/c there is only 2 maybe 3 compounds that you need to worry about. Also the cars are way faster and more enjoyable to race and drive. But the down side to Foam is the need for a Tire Truer.......not that they chunk. If you know how to cut out a body for Foam tires then you wont chunk your tires. For foams you leave the front edges of the wheel wells hang over the tire this will save your tires from chunking.
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