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Old 05-07-2009, 07:17 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by TRF415boy View Post
Running other manufacturer's parts on a prototype car isn't copying, for the very reason that they haven't produced the part themselves. It's simply a much cheaper way of testing different solutions.
I think we'll have to agree to disagree on how similar the 2 cases are, but check the oople 501 review and you'll see Tamiya even did promotional shots of the car with other companies parts on...

Either way, it's not exactly "innovation", which is an argument people have made against this tourer..

Unless I've missed something these guys have still sources their own tooling/materials haven't they? Or did they use Tamiya's tooling too?
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Old 05-07-2009, 07:30 AM   #92
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right now i cannot tell the difference between a serpent, tamiya, xray, hpi, kyosho, etc... they all look the same... except for anodizing color.

if this copy was anodized red, i would think it was a kyosho, purple hpi, etc
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Old 05-07-2009, 12:20 PM   #93
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I'd like to raise a certain point here.

You're all talking about copyright but it is clear to me that you have no idea what copyright is. There is a distinct difference between copyright and a patent. Patent protects an idea an its application, copyright doesn't.

I haven't seen the car inperson and by no means am I saying that there is no infringement here, but what I DO know is that copyright applies to paper-supported means only (in our case this zould mean the drawings of all the parts). In some countries (like the UK) it does indeed protect the representation of the depicted object.

However, there only needs to be one difference in the drawing for the copyright not to apply. For example if one dimension on each part is different to the tamiya part then copyright doesn't apply and Tamiya cannot do anything about it.

Now this is certainly a knock off and I would strongly advise against buying the model, but as I said, there very well could be, technically speaking, no copyright infringement. Morally speaking though is another matter.
Your exactly right. To avoid copywright infringement they had to change at least 1 part, that would be the diff screw, its 2x27.3mm vs OEM which is 2x22mm!
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Old 05-07-2009, 01:38 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by B18C Turbo View Post
Your exactly right. To avoid copywright infringement they had to change at least 1 part, that would be the diff screw, its 2x27.3mm vs OEM which is 2x22mm!
They also changed a few screw lol. You can also see they use different pullies next to the spur gear.
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Old 05-07-2009, 03:14 PM   #95
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ok its a copy, but has anyone tried it and compared it to a real 416 car on a track?
does tamiya spares fit?

if so i`m buying one!
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Old 05-07-2009, 04:56 PM   #96
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To Niznai,

Knowing what I know about Tamiya and their products I can tell you this is not a ploy, a strategy, or even a thought of Tamiya's to promote their car. I really and truly think what this company or person has done is a bunch of crap. Companies like Tamiya, HPI, Kyosho, pay money for research and development. Testing the carís under race conditions, figuring out what works and what doesnít. Then they spend money on creating the instructions manuals, packaging, promoting and advertising. Not to mention customer service for their products. All of this cost money that's built into the cost of the kit. Then poeple like this see something successful, buy it, reverse engineer it, and sit back and brag about what theyíve made. When in fact theyíve actually made nothing. You see itís more than just stealing a cars design and making an imitation. Itís theft of multiple levels and in my opinion and itís completely unethical.

Tamiya isnít going to contract with countries like china because itís like giving them the keys to the palace. China has no control or understanding of words like proprietary, confidential, or ethics. They would send a design over for manufacturing and hours later it would be copied by two or three other companies and sold for a quarter of the price. Destroying branding that Tamiya has spent years building.

I get the point that you can only create a car in so many ways, most shaft drives look alike, most belt drives look alike, but they arenít blatant copies. Associated doesnít promote their car as a 416 we made in Lake Forest. I guess they have...morales.

What if you designed something, poured your heart and soul into it, paid a company to test it, paid for marketing and advertising, paid to send people to races to promote itÖtake this to the next level and say it was so successful you decided to employee a 100 people because your product is making money and your making a name for yourself. Then you see someone steal it right out from under your nose and sell it for less money. Now your sales dip, then possibly dropÖWhat do you tell the people you have to let go? What do you tell the people that believed in your product?

I think the company doing this should be embarrassed and ashamed of themselves and what theyíve done. If you want to be proud of something, create your own car and race it.

PS Hatebreed, you suck!

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Old 05-07-2009, 05:12 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by Hatebreed View Post
ok its a copy, but has anyone tried it and compared it to a real 416 car on a track?
does tamiya spares fit?

if so i`m buying one!
I have one and I tested it on assphalt last weekend. I used a Tekin RS, Orion 17.5, Futaba S9451, and KO radio.

It is just as fast as my Cyclone, I let the owner of the track drive it (owner of a real 416) and its just as fast.

Some parts will need to be replaced with OEM. You will need to order these OEM tamiya parts, yes they all fit.

-Diff screw
-5mm x .5mm shim (for ball diff)

Parts I reccomend but are not neccesary:

C-hubs
Steel front CVD's

Overall this car is a steal at $200 shipped. It uses a Cyclone bumper system so if you want the carbon fiber plate order the HPI part. It comes to something like $225 with parts to make it race worthy. Well worth it in my opinion if your on a budget.
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Old 05-07-2009, 07:13 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by B18C Turbo View Post
I have one and I tested it on assphalt last weekend. I used a Tekin RS, Orion 17.5, Futaba S9451, and KO radio.

It is just as fast as my Cyclone, I let the owner of the track drive it (owner of a real 416) and its just as fast.

Some parts will need to be replaced with OEM. You will need to order these OEM tamiya parts, yes they all fit.

-Diff screw
-5mm x .5mm shim (for ball diff)

Parts I reccomend but are not neccesary:

C-hubs
Steel front CVD's

Overall this car is a steal at $200 shipped. It uses a Cyclone bumper system so if you want the carbon fiber plate order the HPI part. It comes to something like $225 with parts to make it race worthy. Well worth it in my opinion if your on a budget.
wow, tats great...perform like the real car...i heard that trf416we kits hv been stop production..but they still giving parts support for 416we....now they will b coming out with d new model of trf...

trf416 MRE ?? or trf417 ??
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Old 05-07-2009, 08:15 PM   #99
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no way it just came out?
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Old 05-07-2009, 09:05 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by Vyger View Post

Tamiya isn’t going to contract with countries like china because it’s like giving them the keys to the palace. China has no control or understanding of words like proprietary, confidential, or ethics.

What if you designed something, poured your heart and soul into it, paid a company to test it, paid for marketing and advertising, paid to send people to races to promote it…take this to the next level and say it was so successful you decided to employee a 100 people because your product is making money and your making a name for yourself. Then you see someone steal it right out from under your nose and sell it for less money. Now your sales dip, then possibly drop…What do you tell the people you have to let go? What do you tell the people that believed in your product?

Vyg
Tamiya has a choice. One option might lose them some money, the other might lose them the whole bussiness. In between there's a number of scenarios which are going to allow them to exist and run bussiness as usual. But from my point of view (and the australian market entirely indeed) Tamiya doesn't exist since they don't care about the australian market enough to have a decent participation on it. So you see, countries like China might slap them into action one way or another.

About your views about the chinese people perhaps you should refrain from expressing opinions until you visit China or talk to some chinese people.

Tamiya and other companies might have put their soul into their products but I certainly put the money! And I think some of their prices are not justified by whatever they claim it cost them to produce. But that's a different matter.

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I think the company doing this should be embarrassed and ashamed of themselves and what they’ve done. If you want to be proud of something, create your own car and race it.

And so should everybody else on the planet including primates and mamals who all learn by copying others!
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Last edited by niznai; 05-08-2009 at 08:22 AM.
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Old 05-08-2009, 12:10 AM   #101
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as what i heard, tamiya will run a certain amount of limited production for their top TC kit then they will release a new/update model... might be TRF MRE... nothing special for tamiya to release a newer model in less than 1 year... buying the copycat 416we might be a good choice for spare chasis, upper deck, alloys... the rest, we can use original tamiya plastics, belts, gears...
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Old 05-08-2009, 02:23 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by Vyger View Post
...Tamiya isnít going to contract with countries like china because itís like giving them the keys to the palace. China has no control or understanding of words like proprietary, confidential, or ethics. They would send a design over for manufacturing and hours later it would be copied by two or three other companies and sold for a quarter of the price. Destroying branding that Tamiya has spent years building...
If you think Tamiya and others still manufacture in Japan, you have your head in the sand buddy... In fact I would be very surprised if any of the big players are not manufacturing in Asia or Eastern Europe. Also your stereotypical view on Chinese industry/manufacturing ethics are outdated. Yes there are many who do what you say, but there are just as many that don't.

But I agree - stay away from these copies. Cheap and nasty to say the least...
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Old 05-08-2009, 02:56 AM   #103
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If you think Tamiya and others still manufacture in Japan, you have your head in the sand buddy... In fact I would be very surprised if any of the big players are not manufacturing in Asia or Eastern Europe. Also your stereotypical view on Chinese industry/manufacturing ethics are outdated. Yes there are many who do what you say, but there are just as many that don't.

But I agree - stay away from these copies. Cheap and nasty to say the least...
Very sensible post, yes China has some corruption problems, but many businesses successfully deal with them/outsource to them without problems.
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Old 05-08-2009, 03:09 AM   #104
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Lol what i dont get is what makes beginners feel the need to get a Tamiya TRF416 to start out with in the first place. There are plenty of good affordable touring cars out at the moment; Cyclones S, T2R, TA05s etc that are equally competitive but much better quality. I think those people rushing out to buy these clone cars believe that owning a "416" makes you a better driver, but it doesn't.

If i was to get a 416, it would be because i wanted a car that was engineered to be the best. That clone car has virtually no engineering quality in it. Its simply a copy of a good car, made out of crappier quality components.
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Old 05-08-2009, 08:04 AM   #105
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All of these threads invariably devolve into posts made by people who know nothing about modern China or Chinese production making claims against Chinese morals, ethics, people, and quality. It's all stereotype and you are showing nothing but your own lack of education when you make those claims.
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