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Old 04-26-2009, 06:49 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by TryHard View Post
Seriously, don't be a pillock... I can't quite believe that you happy to advocate buying something that is quite simply a massively inferior copy... Says everything about your integrity!

As for others saying its a cheap way into the sport, well I'm sorry...that's crap! If you buy a car that falls apart the first minuite you use it, then that would be a bigger discouragement to a new racer than anything else... If you want to get drivers into the sport, point them towards cars like the TA05 or T2R, which are cheap, capable and very durable.

Sufice to say (and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one on here who thinks like this) that I'll be requesting the mods lock/delete this and any future similar threads.

Ed
I concur.
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Old 04-26-2009, 07:08 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by B18C Turbo View Post
who's knocking tamiya?
"Knock off, knock-off or knockoff" is an unauthorized copy of someone else's work.
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Old 04-26-2009, 07:10 PM   #63
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oh sorry i shoulda read that a bit slower
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Old 04-26-2009, 07:25 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Finite Racing View Post
for those of you worried sick about copy rights, remember that copy right reduces innovation and progress, and in my opinion (and in that of people much more learned in these things than me) they should be phased out all together. the wright brother had a patent on flying machines in America before the first world war. guess which country had next to no aircraft industry??? America. so the government annulled all flying patents and by the end of the war they had the world premier aircraft industry.

Remember that imitation is the highest form of flattery!

And yeah it is probably junk!!!!
A patent is different than a copyright. I am curious to read about your theory of reducing innovation and progress. Instead doesn't it promote it? This car alone is proof that it does. The company chose to outright copy a product rather than make their own. So instead of having 2 distinct cars, you have the same with different quality.

To me, unless I am missing something, copyright protects a design or idea and forces another maker to come up with their OWN ideas, thus leading to more designs and innovations.
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Old 04-27-2009, 12:31 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by Yub, yub, cmdr! View Post
Sorry man, you misspelled misspelled.

By the way, I feel like the West needs to stop being so snobbish. Have you guys looked past to your own industrial development? (I am American, by the way.) Our country spent 20+ years copying down to the bone machines developed by the English during the Industrial Revolution of the 1800s. Now that you have your own development, you want to be hypocritical and condemn others who are following your own path? Sounds like a bunch of snot-nosed arrogant people who are giving the West and our country such a bad reputation abroad. I wish that this country would stop being so narcissistic and open our eyes to the rest of the world. Look at the bigger picture, guys, not the little details that only matter to men lacking in learning.
If you think I'm being snobbish, not in the slightest.
As part of my job, I have regular dealinggs with out plant in china, and also customers we serve out there. By all intents and purposes, they are doing a fantastic job (better than some of our european plants by far). The difference is, it's with licensed technology. We're talking 40m+ turbine blades and the materials that go into them here, so not something that is overly easy to knock-off.
I have no issue with the chinese at all, or the country.... But they do not help themselves by blatently copying other products. They have enough very intelligent people over there that they should easily be able to come up with there own ideas.

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Old 04-27-2009, 02:36 AM   #66
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Basically it's not right to copy others. It's copyright infringement. Lets not get overwork with this matter. We all know this is not right. If China has the brains alongside with capability. They should be smart enough to design one at least something in comparision or better than Tamiya.

But somehow like I did mentioned before. This is basically supply & demand. If there are none why the hell anyone would manufacture right?

The cost of taking up RC is very high in Asian countries. We are all in the mercy of monopoly of big companies for sake of foreign exchange. As an outcome the ori kit cost many times more than most average wage earner can afford.

Since the big guns in RC like to use developing countries to lower their cost & maximize profits. They are eventually exposing their design confidentials to people. As an outcome people will learn, resign open factory & give them a kick on the butt.

For example Airtronics/Sanwa M11, is manufactured in China. But was sold in Yen by the Japanese co. itself. Why can't they sell in Yuan to be fair?
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Old 04-27-2009, 03:22 AM   #67
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The cost of taking up RC is very high in Asian countries. We are all in the mercy of monopoly of big companies for sake of foreign exchange. As an outcome the ori kit cost many times more than most average wage earner can afford.
Thats true, but no excuse to create an exact copy of a car. Probably, some shops will sell it as original Tamiya!?! The manufacturer of this car could easily make some design changes without spending a lot of money. They could get it even cheaper. But if it doesn't look anymore like a Tamiya, most people wouldn't buy it anymore.
In my opinion, the manufacturer of this car is a thief (If he didnt pay Tamiya anything)

Copy a car 1:1 isn't the right way to ceep costs down!
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Old 04-27-2009, 07:10 AM   #68
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..............However, requesting the thread be locked is akin to putting your fingers in your ears and going "nahnanah" because you dont agree with something - the only thing that will change is you won't hear about it.
My sister always do that...

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Old 04-27-2009, 09:05 AM   #69
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If people want to buy a knock off version of a proven car, let them.

When they're leading the A and it falls apart, that's the time to start smiling... (that's if it's even capable of getting there).

buy cheap, buy twice.
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Old 04-27-2009, 09:58 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by Der Dicke View Post
Thats true, but no excuse to create an exact copy of a car. Probably, some shops will sell it as original Tamiya!?! The manufacturer of this car could easily make some design changes without spending a lot of money. They could get it even cheaper. But if it doesn't look anymore like a Tamiya, most people wouldn't buy it anymore.
In my opinion, the manufacturer of this car is a thief (If he didnt pay Tamiya anything)

Copy a car 1:1 isn't the right way to ceep costs down!
If they would patent the car, they have to pay for copyrights to Tamiya. By that way it won't be cheap. They will have to sell at Tamiya recommended retail price.

Basically it boils down to one point. Demand & Supply as mentioned before. If no one wants, then there is no provision from them selling.
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Old 04-27-2009, 11:51 AM   #71
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Perhaps companies throughout China should starting paying their workers wages more in-line with a global economy so the workers can afford to purchase quality type consumer goods.

You get what you pay for...and this is no exception. You will only be undermining Tamiya and so many other great R/C companies if you purchase this car.
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Old 04-27-2009, 12:04 PM   #72
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You can only patent unique features, not the entire car.

I do own the Tamiya version of the 416 and I think it is a great car, but I don't think there are any unique and patentable features on it.

Most people who are on RC Tech will recognize the value that Tamiya adds to the product by supporting and sponsoring race teams around the world. That will do to differentiate Tamiya to the hard core rc racer, but I have to wonder if our sport is really big enough to support copies such is this one that are not marketed by the names we recognize. Having said that, most of the names we recognize are sourcing components from "low cost countries" whether you know it or not.
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Old 04-27-2009, 05:28 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by Fastforward View Post
Most people who are on RC Tech will recognize the value that Tamiya adds to the product by supporting and sponsoring race teams around the world.
Some of us see the paid teams as adding cost to the product, not value.
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Old 04-27-2009, 07:22 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by TryHard View Post
If you think I'm being snobbish, not in the slightest.
As part of my job, I have regular dealinggs with out plant in china, and also customers we serve out there. By all intents and purposes, they are doing a fantastic job (better than some of our european plants by far). The difference is, it's with licensed technology. We're talking 40m+ turbine blades and the materials that go into them here, so not something that is overly easy to knock-off.
I have no issue with the chinese at all, or the country.... But they do not help themselves by blatently copying other products. They have enough very intelligent people over there that they should easily be able to come up with there own ideas.

Ed
Oh no, sir, I'm not suggesting that you in particular are snobbish. Western society as a whole, though, has yet to emerge from that trap. The Chinese DO have very intelligent people that can come up with their own ideas; however, because of the fact that there is no (visible) incentive for them to, they do not. The invisible hand is still victorious; however, it is amoral, and knows no regard for copyright as long as there is no retribution. However, my theory is that as knockoffs propagate in China and expand the market, the knockoffs will soon compete with each other by adding new features, which will then subsequently cause them to clamor for copyright protection on their new features. I think it's a necessary step in development, and we need people like you to help bring about the change. However, we must not overlook the fact that we cannot simply jump from having no domestic RC industry to having a full-fledged, R&D + factory racing program model car company.

Nice discussing with you.
Respect,
David
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Old 04-27-2009, 07:55 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by adamge View Post
Some of us see the paid teams as adding cost to the product, not value.
Point well taken.

Not everyone would see active participation in the sport, advancing the state of the art and technology (which by the way requires a reasonably good driver) as value added. Especially when the paid driver is answering a lot of questions right here on RC Tech (for free).
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