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Old 08-25-2009, 06:58 AM   #376
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Old 08-25-2009, 07:02 AM   #377
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I have morals.

But a company who copies someone else's design of car to make a quick profit do not...
Tamiya dont loose out of this really, as you have to buy quite a few Tamiya parts to get the car running right and constant parts back up from them means Tamiya will get more money over time.

You might as well call the Camiya a 3racing 2.5mm chassis and bulkhead set!

I for one dont feel the least guilty for buying this car, as I spent around 1000 on my TA05 and it still performed averagely.
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Old 08-25-2009, 07:10 AM   #378
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The amount of money i have spent on cars over the last 17 years... no remorse at all.
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Old 08-25-2009, 07:23 AM   #379
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Tamiya dont loose out of this really, as you have to buy quite a few Tamiya parts to get the car running right and constant parts back up from them means Tamiya will get more money over time.

You might as well call the Camiya a 3racing 2.5mm chassis and bulkhead set!

I for one dont feel the least guilty for buying this car, as I spent around 1000 on my TA05 and it still performed averagely.
Really? Tamiya don't lose out?

Erm....

TRF416WE - 400
Spares over a year or two - 150

total 550.

Crappy knockoff - 200
Spares over a year or two - 150

total 350

Tamiya lose out on 200. And if you spend more on spares and parts for the knock-off than you would, then you're still a moron for not buying the real deal. Save up and don't buy a counterfeit.

Tamiya have invested time and money designing a car. Its clear that literally thousands of hours go into the research and development of every part of a Tamiya chassis. It costs so much to buy, BECAUSE it costs so much to develop.

This copy is cheap, BECAUSE someone came along with a tape measure and a set of verniers, and copied every dimension of every part, then went off to get it manufactured from cheaper materials.

How is it right that someone else can rip Tamiya off and and profit financially from Tamiya's hard work and investment?

It just the same with pirated movies and fake fashion items.
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Old 08-25-2009, 07:32 AM   #380
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So whats not wrong with every other car out there that looks identical to the tamiya?

Whats not wrong with the cars out there that look identical to the losi offroad stuff?


playing devils advocate-

how many 416 units are sold world wide? 400? 600? How many parts are sold because of this?

If this company sells 150 units of this car, they are NOT taking away ANY market for 416 as the people who buy this car are probably in the same boat as me. I wouldnt spend 500.00 on a kit if i could afford it.

In fact, i dont recall the last new kit i purchased outright- but i can tell you, it didnt cost more than 250.00. Second thought, i do recall, it was a TC4.

So- Tamiya will now get my dollars in the form of support parts and hop ups. Money they never would have gotten as i was leaning towards PHI, or TC5. Sounds like me buying one, helped tamiya-- hurt someone else..


In the end, i hope it sends a message. TC RACING NEEDS TO BE LESS EXPENSIVE. If it were less expensive, there would be more people doing it. More people= more money.

If the major companies keep pumping out 500.00 kits- well, there will be more 200.00 copies.

I cant say i didnt see this coming== ohh, about 10 years ago.

I was at a race at the Toronto Hobby show. One of the shops at the show (or several for that matter) had yokomo parts that didnt quite look like yokomo parts.. but WAY cheaper. I thought to my self, if a company can make these parts so cheaply, why cant yokomo? Why cant the whole car be less expensive for that matter..


You also mention that this XYZ company is going to be making a lot of money off of this-- which, is the only thing that also gets me. I mean, they shouldnt profit off of anothers work- as an artist I am faced with this (another hobby all together)... but at the same time-- how much can they possibly be making off of a kit? Seems like if there profit margin is anything more than 10-20%-- you should be screaming at Tamiya for having such a high markup.
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Old 08-25-2009, 07:36 AM   #381
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Buying a copied car is like going fishing with cheap hooks.

You can very easily loose a good result through your own fault
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Old 08-25-2009, 07:37 AM   #382
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It is not GBP Mate
It's 200 US DOLARS which is around 120-130 pounds inc postage
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Old 08-25-2009, 07:39 AM   #383
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Theres a difference between taking styling cues from others.....and 100% stealing the dimensions of parts. Last time I checked, theres NO other cars out there, that are stolen from Tamiya's drawing board.

And playing devils advocate..... I know its a long shot, but take this situation....

''Well Known Company'' makes a high end car. Very fast, wins races around the globe. Lots and lots and lots of hours invested in the design, research and manufacture of the car. As a result, demand is high, and the company puts on extra shifts, and hires local people to fill the orders. To ensure that quality is kept to a maximum, they hire guys to check, check and triple check everything to make sure its all 100% before being packaged (by more employees). For all this financial investment and security offered by ''Well Known Company'', they ask $400 for the car.

''Random guy in another country'' wants to make some money. He sees ''Well Known Company'' charging $400 for a 'toy car', and manages to get hold of one. He thinks he can copy/rip off/steal all the sizes and dimensions of the car, change a couple of materials and sell it at a much lower price. A quick measurement with his verniers and.....hey presto, ''Random guy in another country'' is a car manufacturer. He charges $150 for his version of ''Well Known Company''s car.

'Where is this leading?', I hear you ask...

''Joe Public'' is feeling the pinch of the credit crunch. He wants a new car as his 'LosociatPImo' is a few years old and doesn't cut the mustard at the track anymore. He spots ''Well Known Company''s car, but can't afford (or doesn't want to spend) $400, so he goes for ''Random guy in another country''s car.

All it takes is 4 or 5 people at every track to do the same as ''Joe Public'' and suddenly, ''Well Known Company''s sales are through the floor. They can't run those extra shifts as demand has plummeted. All the staff they took on have to be released as ''Well Known Company''s bank balance is now in the red, and the money isn't there to pay them. Eventually, the company folds.

Is there anything postive about someone stealing the design (and I mean stealing it 100%, same sizes, hole locations etc, not taking design cues and ideas) from a company?

Hell no.
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Old 08-25-2009, 07:47 AM   #384
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OKay- i should explain, i am not okay with anyone stealing designs or offering another person or companies work for less.

I am not saying this is "right". I am saying that in my opinion, if cars werent so expensive (and they dont have to be) this kind of thing wouldnt happen.
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Old 08-25-2009, 07:50 AM   #385
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Does a copy cat company offer the help from team drivers for it's car setup?

No.

Does a copy cat company care about the quality of the parts within a kit, and the spare parts backup (if indeed there is one that can be relied upon?)

No.

Does a copy cat company care about if you get a good result with your purchase?

No.

Will you get a substandard product for a cloned car?

Yes

Would you buy a real full sized car with fake number/registration plates?


Personally, err think i'll pass on that...


So, is this fake r/c car a good thing for our hobby.....
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Old 08-25-2009, 08:02 AM   #386
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There's other reasons than cost of kits for why TC isn't so popular - 1/8th Buggies are $500/600 for a roller, and is the most popular form of racing around.
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Old 08-25-2009, 08:13 AM   #387
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hey- theres many points of view... many pros and cons. We could go back and forth all day.

I dont need support from any of the above mentioned. I DO- however need a chassis that is attainable.

Im going to give it a try- Sorry
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Old 08-25-2009, 08:20 AM   #388
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Quote:
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TC RACING NEEDS TO BE LESS EXPENSIVE.


you should be screaming at Tamiya for having such a high markup.
I agreee TC racing should be less expensive, but copying someone elses design isn't the way of doing it.

Tamiya might have a high mark up compared to other brands, but no one forces a gun to your head to buy their products....

There are plenty of other brands to choose from, all with expensive price tags and unique features...

Unique features that the company spent time and money to design from the first idea it came from, through to making measurements/CAD design to moulding machines and getting it sent out to retailers, oh and of course a profit to keep the company happy

Just as a general point for r/c as a hobby...

I don't like the high prices any more than the next guy who pits next to me at a race meeting, but I race to have enjoyment from the hobby.

I try to be as consistant and as crash free as possible, this alone saves me $ in repairs and this in turn gives me and my sponsors a good result.

Wear and tear is part of this hobby and like it or not, it's here to stay.

If you want a hobby without wear and tear, try stamp collecting

If you want a hobby that gives you an adrenalin rush, you're in the right place!

With the recession all too apparent, more people don't have spare cash to dump into a hobby, one of the reasons why a cheap copy of a car does nothing but fool someone into thinking they have a good car, when clearly it's not got a World Championship pedigree to its name, or even probably a good national championship win to its name....
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Old 08-25-2009, 08:34 AM   #389
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hey- theres many points of view... many pros and cons. We could go back and forth all day.

I dont need support from any of the above mentioned. I DO- however need a chassis that is attainable.

Im going to give it a try- Sorry
I get a sneaky feeling a lot of these responses have a certain anger to them. The reason being, 'How dare you spend 200 dollars on a car that I spent over 500 dollars for!

To be honest, I have had one guy with a real 416 say 'thats out of order' regards to my car and I sort of agreed with him. If I had his 416 and knew how much was needed to make the fake 416 handle just like a real one, I wouldn't be as pissed off about it. Its a bit like having a BMW 3 series and modding it to have the performance of a BMW M3 AND ADDING an M3 BADGE. In the end, its not a real M3!

At the end of the day, the real Tamiya is the better car regardless, as its got the quality edge and there will never be a niggling doubt about outright performance. The only guilt I will have is that its not the real thing, so it may be a tenth slower and not because of effecting Tamiya's business.
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Old 08-25-2009, 08:40 AM   #390
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With the recession all too apparent, more people don't have spare cash to dump into a hobby, one of the reasons why a cheap copy of a car does nothing but fool someone into thinking they have a good car, when clearly it's not got a World Championship pedigree to its name, or even probably a good national championship win to its name....
I dont think much about this comment. I think the only thing this type of person wants who you're alluding to is the BLING factor, if they simply buy a car because it wins championships! - You might as well rule out every manufacturer other than Xray and Tamiya who could have buyers, if thier clients only go for championship cars!
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