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Tamiya F104 Pro!

Old 12-17-2012, 04:26 AM
  #9061  
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Can't run camber on the back of a F104 Black Edition.
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Old 12-17-2012, 07:21 AM
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Alright guys, got my F104 Pro out to the track yesterday now I need some setup advice

Track is roughly 70x30', high bite carpet

The car has a push, but also has a TON of steering. It is VERY easy to over steer and spin it out in the turns. I was doping the entire rear tires (TCS Rubber) and the inside 1/2 of the fronts. Everything is box stock, less the spur gear and tires.

(setup off the top of my head)
Rear ride height is in the lowest position.
45wt oil in the shock
30k wt diff oil on the rear damper plates, spring compressed with ~7mm thread showing (manual says start with 4mm)
0 camber
Reedy 5000mAh LiPo placed as far forward as possible with foam blocks in the back to keep it forward

This was just my initial setup from the build. I took it out on the track just to get a feel for it and see where I needed to make adjustments. I spent the majority of my time adjusting the diff and breaking in the tires though.

What I planned on doing was placing the battery all the way back for starters, and see where that got me. I also have a high traction T plate on order, so I'll put that in as well. From there, adjusting the rear shock spring/oil, rear damper oil, removing the middle screw from the T plate, and removing chassis standoffs to achieve more flex. I've got the front screw set coming in with the T plate as well.

Am I heading in the right direction?
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Old 12-17-2012, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Andysan View Post
Hey man,

You can try a few things - generally, if your tyres are shot at both ends of the car then you should replace them all around, but I digress. Perhaps try any of the followign one at a time;

* Add more weight to the rear, as low down and close to the axle as possible.
* Adjust the T-bar.
* Stiffer spring in the rear shock - this should stop the weight transferring to the front on corner-in, and ensure that you have a bit more shock rebound and hence weight transfer over the rear on corner-out.
* Add a bit of toe-out on the front.
Thank you very much sir for the tips, should i lower the ride height too?
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Old 12-17-2012, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by -Adz- View Post
Just to add to Andysan's informative post; I would run some camber too, especially on the back. You say your running 0 degrees, if that's on the back, then that's half ya problem. Otherwise, welcome to the great class of F1.
Yes sir, i have 0 camber but my adjustable camber is only applicable at my front wheels, my kit doesn't have adjustments at the back wheels
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Old 12-17-2012, 09:02 AM
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anybody try fitting a rm01 pitch damper on a x1 or wgp? thanks!
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Old 12-17-2012, 10:41 AM
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You really can't adjust camber on a solid axle in the rear. Maybe if it had a couple U-joints ........
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Old 12-17-2012, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by The Captain View Post
Am I heading in the right direction?
I can't remember what I used to do to set up my old F103 but I think I replaced the friction plates with a TRF F1 shock but then that was an older wide arm chassis.

My v2 was almost dead on at teh Track in Winthrop Harbor, it was only the driver that was the main deficiency. Since its initial voyage I made a few changes but most are for the link chassis.
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Old 12-17-2012, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by The Captain View Post
Alright guys, got my F104 Pro out to the track yesterday now I need some setup advice

Track is roughly 70x30', high bite carpet

The car has a push, but also has a TON of steering. It is VERY easy to over steer and spin it out in the turns. I was doping the entire rear tires (TCS Rubber) and the inside 1/2 of the fronts. Everything is box stock, less the spur gear and tires.

(setup off the top of my head)
Rear ride height is in the lowest position.
45wt oil in the shock
30k wt diff oil on the rear damper plates, spring compressed with ~7mm thread showing (manual says start with 4mm)
0 camber
Reedy 5000mAh LiPo placed as far forward as possible with foam blocks in the back to keep it forward

This was just my initial setup from the build. I took it out on the track just to get a feel for it and see where I needed to make adjustments. I spent the majority of my time adjusting the diff and breaking in the tires though.

What I planned on doing was placing the battery all the way back for starters, and see where that got me. I also have a high traction T plate on order, so I'll put that in as well. From there, adjusting the rear shock spring/oil, rear damper oil, removing the middle screw from the T plate, and removing chassis standoffs to achieve more flex. I've got the front screw set coming in with the T plate as well.

Am I heading in the right direction?
Shimizu TCS tires, or Tamiya tires
Shimizu TCS tires require no breakin, only cleaning first time to get around

If you don't have grip on Shimizu on carpet something is wrong with car build
Doesn't sound like a setup issue

Can you post pics of you car in current form
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Old 12-17-2012, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by AreCee View Post
I can't remember what I used to do to set up my old F103 but I think I replaced the friction plates with a TRF F1 shock but then that was an older wide arm chassis.

My v2 was almost dead on at teh Track in Winthrop Harbor, it was only the driver that was the main deficiency. Since its initial voyage I made a few changes but most are for the link chassis.
Yeah they sell a conversion for the friction plates, Tamiya #54331. Problem is its more than $50, so I'm going to try to make the plates work for now.
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Old 12-17-2012, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by RedBullFiXX View Post
Shimizu TCS tires, or Tamiya tires
Shimizu TCS tires require no breakin, only cleaning first time to get around

If you don't have grip on Shimizu on carpet something is wrong with car build
Doesn't sound like a setup issue

Can you post pics of you car in current form
He did say he's using those tires.

Those tires have good traction and depending on the track may even cause traction rolls.
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Old 12-17-2012, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by RedBullFiXX View Post
Shimizu TCS tires, or Tamiya tires
Shimizu TCS tires require no breakin, only cleaning first time to get around

If you don't have grip on Shimizu on carpet something is wrong with car build
Doesn't sound like a setup issue

Can you post pics of you car in current form
Tamiya 1031 and 1032 tires. I'll post up pics when I get home tonight.
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Old 12-17-2012, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by The Captain View Post
Tamiya 1031 and 1032 tires. I'll post up pics when I get home tonight.
A little confused on this
"The car has a push, but also has a TON of steering."

So is that off-throttle push
and
On throttle loose ?

What are you putting on the tires ?
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Old 12-17-2012, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by RedBullFiXX View Post
A little confused on this
"The car has a push, but also has a TON of steering."

So is that off-throttle push
and
On throttle loose ?

What are you putting on the tires ?
Yup. Off throttle the car has a push, on throttle the rear end likes to whip around fairly easily, but turns on a dime. What I noticed was I had to stay in the throttle going through the turns, and there was a VERY fine margin between just enough throttle to get through the turn, and too much throttle and making it spin out. I also thought this just might be the way these things drive, too.

We can only use SXT traction compound.

Keep in mind this is my first 2WD onroad car, first pan car, so there is quite a learning curve for me.
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Old 12-17-2012, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by The Captain View Post
Yup. Off throttle the car has a push, on throttle the rear end likes to whip around fairly easily, but turns on a dime. What I noticed was I had to stay in the throttle going through the turns, and there was a VERY fine margin between just enough throttle to get through the turn, and too much throttle and making it spin out. I also thought this just might be the way these things drive, too.

We can only use SXT traction compound.

Keep in mind this is my first 2WD onroad car, first pan car, so there is quite a learning curve for me.
That car, on those tires should be fairly easy to drive on carpet, not loose, yes a bit pushy of throttle

The later model F-104 X1, and VII are even easier to drive, with many more options for setup, but 104Pro isn't that far off from the ultimate fast lap, if at all
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Old 12-17-2012, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by er6f View Post
Thank you very much sir for the tips, should i lower the ride height too?
What is it currently set to now - ensure that the rear ride height is the same as the front, or about 0.5mm higher at the rear. If you'r running smooth carpet, somewhere around 5mm is a good starting point. Also, if you can get hold of any tyre additive then this will make a huge difference.



Originally Posted by -Adz- View Post
Just to add to Andysan's informative post; I would run some camber too, especially on the back. You say your running 0 degrees, if that's on the back, then that's half ya problem. Otherwise, welcome to the great class of F1.
Hey Man,

Just out of interest, as I don't actually own an F104 (I run F102/3), how do you add camber to the rear???
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