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Old 10-30-2011, 11:36 AM   #6736
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Originally Posted by wonderjew View Post
Why does my f104 ferrari make sounds when i turn particularly right? It sounds like its coming from the spur gear and the pinion gear. Im using a 93 Spur Gear and a 30 Pinion Gear. I hit a wall and then it started to make the sound. I rebuilt the diff. Any Ideas?"?
Sounds like a bad bearing in your diff or axle carrier.
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Old 10-30-2011, 06:18 PM   #6737
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Ok so i took out the heavy pivot post and the car runs AWESOME !!! on our track which id describe as medium grip bumpy ashphalt, and my ususal tamiya medium rears with tamiya hard front rubber tyres the car was awesome. I ususally do 22 second laps with the odd 21 second lap. Today i did consistent 21 seoncd laps with a few high 20 second laps in there as well...

I think the rolling damper adds some predictability to the car which allows you to improve your consistency.
sounds good so you noticed the differance with the rolling damper, im looking forward to getting mine on soon
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Old 10-31-2011, 06:13 AM   #6738
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Originally Posted by LordAnubis View Post
Ok so i took out the heavy pivot post and the car runs AWESOME !!! on our track which id describe as medium grip bumpy ashphalt, and my ususal tamiya medium rears with tamiya hard front rubber tyres the car was awesome. I ususally do 22 second laps with the odd 21 second lap. Today i did consistent 21 seoncd laps with a few high 20 second laps in there as well...

I think the rolling damper adds some predictability to the car which allows you to improve your consistency.
Great!!

Would be interesting to see how it does with this setup and soft rears!
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Old 10-31-2011, 10:09 PM   #6739
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Looking for a 21.5 motor for my F104 with a Cirtix stock club race ESC. Are most of them pretty similar in speed or has one manufacture put out a better motor then the others?
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Old 10-31-2011, 10:37 PM   #6740
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Originally Posted by CR0SS View Post
Looking for a 21.5 motor for my F104 with a Cirtix stock club race ESC. Are most of them pretty similar in speed or has one manufacture put out a better motor then the others?
Top 3 motors for F1 I would say are Duo3, Thunder Power and the new Reedy because of the fully adjustable timing features of each.
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Old 11-01-2011, 01:31 AM   #6741
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Looking for a 21.5 motor for my F104 with a Cirtix stock club race ESC. Are most of them pretty similar in speed or has one manufacture put out a better motor then the others?
another good motor for the F1 and also has full adjustable timing are the speed passion 1-2 cell motors and the are only $45 usd on ebay , i put the plus 10 timing sensor in and it has smoothed out the power heaps less torque out of corners i have been using my 17.5
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Old 11-01-2011, 08:19 AM   #6742
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another good motor for the F1 and also has full adjustable timing are the speed passion 1-2 cell motors and the are only $45 usd on ebay , i put the plus 10 timing sensor in and it has smoothed out the power heaps less torque out of corners i have been using my 17.5
+ 10 timing sensor?? i'm curious - any links to it?
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Old 11-01-2011, 08:23 AM   #6743
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Isn't that like the V3 on max timing?
You can alter mechenical timing on the SP V3 from -10 to +10

regards Roy

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another good motor for the F1 and also has full adjustable timing are the speed passion 1-2 cell motors and the are only $45 usd on ebay , i put the plus 10 timing sensor in and it has smoothed out the power heaps less torque out of corners i have been using my 17.5
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Old 11-01-2011, 09:40 AM   #6744
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Anyone in the so cal area have any type of tire sets they can be used that they might to want to sell or get rid of? I may be at wcrc tonight I can pick them up let me know what you have if any thanks guys. I finally got the car wired and somewhat tweaked.
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Old 11-01-2011, 06:24 PM   #6745
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the motor is a V3 it was desighned to be used in 1/12 cars the timing standard is from 0-10 degrees but you can buy differant sensors so a plus 10 will give 20 degrees of timing or just 10 all the way to left.
the one cell V3 is lighter than the 2-4 cell motor and for F1 is smooth. and the price is good
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Old 11-01-2011, 06:34 PM   #6746
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Originally Posted by Pro10noob View Post
Isn't that like the V3 on max timing?
You can alter mechenical timing on the SP V3 from -10 to +10

regards Roy
yes you are correct i have been using in my TC aswell.
the motors are pretty good for the dollar i like the fact i can by a few for the price of 1

i put my 13.5 back in which came with the citrix and i foun it agressive out of corners at times i then put my 17.5 V3 back in andf ound it heaps smoother less torque i find it easier to drive
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Old 11-01-2011, 09:44 PM   #6747
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Hey guys im getting my f104x1 tommorow just wondering if there are any sites that this build is covered on or any tips that are not covered in the manual?
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Old 11-01-2011, 10:07 PM   #6748
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http://www.tamiyausa.com/articles/fe...article-id=551
http://www.tamiyausa.com/articles/fe...article-id=581
http://www.tamiyausa.com/articles/fe...article-id=442

I will be building mine this week too
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Old 11-01-2011, 10:11 PM   #6749
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Hey guys im getting my f104x1 tommorow just wondering if there are any sites that this build is covered on or any tips that are not covered in the manual?
http://www.uf1series.com/_sub_pages/2011/F104X.html
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Old 11-01-2011, 11:47 PM   #6750
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Hey guys im getting my f104x1 tommorow just wondering if there are any sites that this build is covered on or any tips that are not covered in the manual?
This is an awesome build by rtypec

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Originally Posted by lightfoot View Post
If anyone is interested in 2011 F1 Tire Decals, Mark G has got a deal for you...

http://uf1series.com/_news/news_2011.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtypec View Post
Hi All, I started building the F104 X1 and will post pictures and information about each step.

Since this is one of the first builds that I've shared, I under estimated the amount of time it takes to capture everything so please bear with my slow build pace (car could have been built hours ago)

So without further adieu...

Step 0 - Chassis Prep

This step is totally optional but I typically sand, seal, sand, and polish all of my carbon fiber pieces. The results are mirror finish edges and a smooth tactile feel when you handle the car.

The F104 X1 comes with an FRP lower and upper deck as well as a carbon fiber battery hold down plate. This is my first experience with the latest FRP material that Tamiya utilizes and the quality of the cuts were a pleasant suprise. For the FRP parts, I skipped the CA sealing and went straight to wet sanding starting at a 180 grit and finishing with a 1500 grit. Afterwards, I polished the edges with Mother's Polish. The finish isn't as mirror smooth as it would be if it was carbon fiber, but for my first FRP chassis, it's good enough.

Setting up for chassis prep:


Close up of raw carbon fiber edge:


On the carbon fiber piece, I wet sanded with 180 grit to knock off the sharp edge and then applied two coats of CA with a cotton swab.

A couple of tips on sealing with CA:
  • Avoid using glue under flourescent light. The UV rays accelerate the cure time and yeilds a rough, crinkly surface.
  • Try to seal with a warm ambient temperature, somewhere between 75-90 degrees F. If it's too cold, a white residue will form.
  • Be patient and apply thin layers allowing proper drying time between coats.

After applying the CA I set the carbon fiber piece aside to completely dry. The area I'm taking photos in is full of flourescent lighting and would really mess it up. I'll post pictures later

Bearing Prep:
I took all of the axle bearings and did an initial blow out of grease with a quick hit of motor spray. I then placed them in a jar of motorspray and set them aside to marinate until needed. Again, this is only for the axle bearings...I did not do this for differential bearings. Also, keep in mind this trick is intended for spec, silvercan, or slow motor racing and bearing life will be shortened



That's it before starting on step 1.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtypec View Post
The first step is rather straight foward. It involves attaching the rc tray posts, the hi-traction T-bar and the bottom of the motor pod to the lower deck.

Here are all the parts for step 1:


Weight of kit supplied hardware instructed for use in step 1:


Weight of titanium and aluminum hardware I will be using in step 1:


Low profile nut:

I used a low profile 3mm aluminum nut and a 3x6mm countersunk screw instead of the kit setup to free up additional wiggle room when you slide batteries in an out of the chassis. This yields at least an additional 1mm of clearance so you don't scratch your batteries up when you slide them into the chassis at an angle. Please note the liberal use of blue loctite to keep the nut in place.

Step 1 completed:


Please let me know if you guys want me to continue posting weights or if you want me to STFU
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtypec View Post
Step 2 involves assembly of the motor mount. It is very important to assemble the pod on a flat surface to prevent any tweaking which could potentially lead to an ill handling car.

Parts and an aluminum motor mount for step 2:


Weight of kit hardware:


Weight of titanium hardware:


Loosely assemble the motor mount:

I assembled the motor mount on my setup board and did not fully tighten any of the screws.

While holding the motor mount flat, tighten each screw a little bit at a time, alternating between different screws until all of them are snug:


Now you can apply Kong-like strength and tighten the screws completely

This concludes step 2. Step 3 is a no brainer and I am contemplating if I should even post it. I'll post some more after a little break.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtypec View Post
Okay, I'll post this step before taking a break...

Attaching the motor mount to the chassis. Four 3x8mm countersunk screws...that's it

Parts for step 3:


Weight of kit hardware:


Weight of titanium hardware:


Step 3 completed:


Hardware weight savings so far: a whopping 4.9 grams hehe
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtypec View Post
Step 4 involves attaching the rear drive shaft as well as ball studs for the shock and side damper.

Here are the parts used for step 4:


Acer synthetic is the only oil I ever use. It's a light oil and works very well for just about anything. Although the bottle has great eye candy, it doesn't have a needle tip, so I have a spare bottle with that.

Also pictured is carbon fiber rear shaft. I'm all for low rotational mass and if you can put the power down, it's a significant advantage.

Steel shaft:


Carbon fiber shaft (that's what I'm talking about):


A little glue goes a long way:


To prevent cracking or premature wear from constant screwing (hehe), a drop of CA was carefully spread across the flat spots on the CF shaft. If the CA goes anywhere except for the flat spot, the bearings supporting the shaft will be difficult to install. If that's the case, and you can see I had a little oopsie, spinning the shaft in some 400-600 grit sandpaper should remove the excess CA.

To be continued...
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtypec View Post
When I first saw these ball studs, I thought "Sweet, black anodized aluminum good stuff!" Then when I held them in my fingers, they felt a little bit too heavy to be aluminum...

Kit ball studs:


Aluminum hop ups:


Free speed:

Remember those bearings in the jar? I removed them and gave them another blast of motorspray to get rid of any residual grease. Once dry, I applied the synthetic oil:

Now that the CF shaft and bearings are ready, it's time to prep the parts that hold everything together.

Loctite set screws:

I used blue loctite on the set screws for the diff joint and wheel axle. With loctite, I do not have to overtighten the set screws and risk cracking the CF shaft. It should be tight but not carbon fiber-cracking tight.

Step 4 completed:


The counter weight is a neat idea, it doesn't effect rotating mass and acts like a spinner

Using the number 2 ride height adjuster to keep rear ground clearance to a minimum.

Important tip, when stacking all the pieces onto the rear motor pod, you want the shaft to have a microscopic amount of side to side play. Maybe 0.05mm, just enough to ensure that the shaft assembly floats freely and none of the bearings will bind. It took several attempts, but with enough patience and adjusting, I was satisfied with the result. Again, this is a free speed tip Rear wheels will spin forever.


That's it for step 4. Tomorrow, I'll tackle the differential.

I've spent more time posting this stuff than I have on building the car I hope this helps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtypec View Post
The ball differential is a vital component that affects the way the car handles. During assembly, I made sure that I kept all parts clean and free of contaminants.

You can use your grease of choice based on what's popular at your track. For the Tamiya track, there's a mix of those who run normal greases and those who run Mobile 1 red sythnetic grease. Back when we used to run rubber tires on the F103, all of the really fast guys ran Mobile 1 grease religiously. We set the differential to slip between 6 inches to 1 foot under full acceleration from a dead stop. Keep in mind, there is a fine balance and requires a bit of time and effort finding the sweet spot, but once you nail it, you can hammer the trottle on corner exit without any suprises...and that is a good feeling.

That being said, I deviated on this build by building the differential similar to my touring cars. Associated red label silicon grease on the plate and balls, and Mobil 1 or Tamiya's VG thrust bearing grease on the thrust bearing.

Important tip: When assembling the differential, do not fully tighten the lock nut. You want to snug it up until the differential action starts working. Fully tightening and loosening a quarter turn as instructed by the instructions may crush or deform the diff plates, diff balls, or thrust bearing. Final adjustments should be done at the track after break-in of the diff.

Parts and a few hopups for step 5:


Building the diff with AE red label silicon grease:


After assembly, the differential action felt somewhat dry and gritty. I wasn't satisified with this and took it apart and degreased everything.

If you noticed in the previous pictures, I was using the hop up thrust bearing. There's a reason why we never used it when we ran F103 rubber cars. The were inconsistent as some would be great out of the pack while others were junk. They didn't last long either with the way we set our cars up to slip. Lastly, there was a time when we had a huge supply of stock thrust bearings; we wouldn't think twice tossing out a semi-worn one and replace it with a new one...just because we had so many

Okay, so now that everything was taken apart and degreased. I rebuilt the diff with Mobil 1 and used the stock 1150 bearing with cone washers as the thurst bearing.

Rebuilding the diff with Mobil 1 synthetic grease:


Step 5 completed:


Ah...smooth like butter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtypec View Post
Step 6 is devoted to differential gear adjustment. Since, this is something I do at the track after breaking in the diff, I'll skip this step.

Step 7 involves attaching the diff cap onto the diff hub and installing the motor. I typically install electronics last and will post info when I get to that step.

Parts for step 7:


Not much to it, step 7 completed:
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtypec View Post
Moving to the front end, step 8 involves attaching the front lower arm and camber plate.

Parts for step 8:


Weight of stock hardware:


Weight of hop up hardware:


What happened here?!?
The two stock 4x30mm screws are actually aluminum and weigh much less than their titanium counterparts. I like the weight of aluminum but want the strength of titanium. That being said, I split the difference and used an aluminum screw for the front and a titanium screw in the rear.

Step 8 completed:


I initially set camber to 1.5 degrees since it seems to be a moderatly safe amount of camber. I will add or remove camber while testing setups. For reference, my F104 Pro is currently set to 2.0 degrees. Oddly enough, atleast at the Tamiya track and on MY F104 Pro, adding front camber seems to effect only entry and mid corner steering...it has no effect on corner exit. Please let me know if you've experienced something similar. Or you can tell me to put the crack pipe down

Note, I used a tiny dab of blue loctite on the camber ball studs to keep them in place. The use of loctite here is totally optional but I used it for a sense of security. Again, I used a very small amount.

And that completes step 8. The next steps contain a mix of chassis assembly and electronics installation. As I said earlier, I tend to install electronics last, so I may be skipping or jumping steps in my subsequent posts.

I've got a Saturday to get out and enjoy so I won't be working on the car until this evening. Tomorrow is a practice day so time to work on the car and post info will be limited.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtypec View Post
My friends are already giving me flack for color mixing...unless they want to give me the black parts or a an entire black edition kit as a donor car, they can hug it

As much as I would like to have had black or titanium anodized parts to match the rest of the F104 X1, I simply didn't have any of those parts laying around. Fortunately, I have a bunch of spare blue F104 hop ups and we all know that Tamiya blue is worth 2 tenths per lap


In regards to the Mobil 1 grease, I dug it up the nearly 10 year old tube and snapped a picture:
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtypec View Post
Tie-rod assembly is a breeze if you have the right tools.

Parts for step 9:


Adjuster tool and turnbuckle wrench doing work:

To ensure straight tie-rods, I typically start threading an adjuster onto a turn buckle and try to get it as straight as possible during the first few threads. If it isn't straight, back off and try repositioning. From there, you can go to town with the tools.

Trimming adjusters with a sharp exacto blade:


Step 9 continued...
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtypec View Post
Weight of stock hardware:


Weight of aluminum hardware:


Continuing with step 9, I used a dab of blue loctite on the steering horn assembly:


Step 9 completed:
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtypec View Post
I didn't get much accomplished with actually building the car today. However, I did work on the electronics.

Heatshrink and shoe goo hides most of the wiring mess:


Quote:
Originally Posted by rtypec View Post
To continue with carbon fiber prep from one of my earlier posts, this is how the carbon fiber edges looked raw:


After wet sanding with 240 grit to remove sharp edges and application of two CA coats.

Not bad, but it can get way better.


Once the glue dried, I wet sanded the glued edges to smooth them out. I started with 400 and used finer grits until I got to 2000.

Pretty smooth...

Now it's time for the fun stuff.


Close up of the finished carbon fiber edge:

Apologies for the craptacular picture. It was impossibly hard to get the camera to focus because of reflections and highlights on the shiny edges.

Hopefully this gives you some into the process I use for prepping carbon fiber parts. It's time consuming but the results are awesome.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtypec View Post
Steps 10 through 13 involve assembly of the servo saver and installation of the servo and electronics trays.

Parts for the famous or infamous Tamiya heavy duty servo saver

If you look carefully, I went back to step 9 and flipped the ball connectors on the aluminum servo horn. From my experience with the F04, I liked the way this setup felt on track. Additionally, this may help offset any ackerman effects that occur due to extreme tie rod angles. This is something that you should test on your own and decide which way feels better because of different driving styles and indvidual preferences on how the car should feel.

Servo installed

I trimmed off some plastic near the front front of the servo holders in case I want to play with additional steering geometry in the future I have in the past, but I actually prefer the stock servo position. This is one of those "just in case" moments.

Adjuster clearance


There's not much room, but the adjusters clear the servo and mounts with no binding or rubbing.

Also, I've given up on providing weight comparisons between stock and hop up hardware for individual steps. It's a work multiplier and slows down the build tremendously. Besides, I think we should get the idea by now; the car will be lighter than stock
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtypec View Post
I added a bunch of hopup goodies during the assembly of the upper deck.

Parts for step 14


Step 14 completed:

The aluminum body posts weigh a little more than the plastic ones, but these are pimp and are faster than the stock I swapped the titanium screw that holds the TRF415-7 antenna holder to an aluminum one...less weight and no stress on an antenna.


Parts for step 15

Not much to this step with four screws and two o-rings.
When attaching the upper deck to the chassis, make sure you use a flat surface to keep the chassis as flat and straight as possible while you tighten the screws.

Step 16 shows instuctions on attaching the R/C units to the chassis. Since I've already completed that step, this step no longer applies.

Steps 14-16 completed


It's starting to look like a car
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtypec View Post
Attaching the front upper arm is straight foward with no drama.

Parts for step 17

During initial assembly, it will be easier to screw the ball connector nut to the chassis before you attach the front upper arms.

Step 17 completed
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtypec View Post
Step 18 calls for assembly and attachment of the front uprights.

Parts for step 18


Please note the following:
  • The kit provides all three different springs. Nice!
  • I replaced the plastic spacers with aluminum spacers. Precision!
  • I used black springs with Tamiya soft damper grease to provide some form of damping

Too help keep everything in place, use blue loctite on the 2mm nuts and 3mm grub screws


Before I tighten the grub screw completely, I pinch the steering upright up against the upper arm. I'm not certain if doing this affects anything, but it can't hurt.

Step 18 completed
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtypec View Post
These steps involve the assembly of shock and roll damper. Not much more can be said about the TRF damper that hasn't already been said before. It's simply the best out there.

Parts for steps 19-22


Note the following:
  • I added a 0.1mm spacer between the bottom c-clip and shock piston. This reduces any slop that the piston may have.
  • The instructions call for Tamiya ball diff lube for the roll damper. Since this is the first X1 I've built, I will go with that. After putting the roll damper on the car, it does feel a little light but very smooth and may just work for the Tamiya track.
  • I was pleasantly suprised when I opened the parts bag to found out that the kit comes with 3 springs for the rear shock. The red spring feels almost like the old gold miata spring and that's what I used.
  • Assembly of the TRF damper is pretty much a no-brainer. While putting the shock together, I used a drop of shock oil on the orings, rod guides, and shock shaft,

0.1mm spacer on top of the shock shaft's c-clip


Steps 19-21 completed


Dampers attached, step 22 completed


From another angle


Once everything was together, the damper feel seems to be very promising. It's got that floppy loose feel, but is smooth at the same time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtypec View Post
That pretty much covers the assembly of the chassis. With the exception of a few minor pieces, the car is very close to being finished.





Things to do before the car is ready to run include initial setup, setting steering toe angles, adjust steering end points on the radio, glue tires, mount body, break in of the diff, etc...If you want, I'll post more information about that when I finish prepping the car for it's maiden run.

I hope this build has been informative and I thank you for taking the time to view it. If you have any questions or comments, please let me know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtypec View Post
I took some time today to finish the car and get it ready to run.

Left side of the F104 X1 with an F60 body set


The right side shot


Please note the following details:
  • As instructed, don't forget a dab of grease on the lock nuts to prevent the locking rubbery bit doesn't rip or pop off when you initially tighten it.
  • When attaching the front wheels, tightening the lock nut fully and then back off an 1/8th of a turn to prevent the bearings from binding.
  • I had to adjust the rear body mounts by adding/removing spacers until I was satisfied with the body's stance.
  • The body MUST be trimmed to clear the roll damper.
  • Trim ANY part of the body that may rub ANY part of the chassis when it's flexed in ANY direction. This will prevent any weird on track behavior due to a body rub.

Close up of left side body trimming


Close up of right side body trimming


And with these minor odds and ends wrapped up...the F104 X1 is DONE
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtypec View Post
Thanks Charles!

Took the X1 out for its first run today. I only had one charged battery and a couple of tools. One of the locals, Kevin, was kind enough to film the three runs on a single pack. Would you guys be interested in seeing the videos and watch the taming of a beast? Lol it wasn't pretty, but it shows some of the issues that we experience when running new a chassis (teething pains/new car blues) and progression after each setup change. I have additional changes I need to make that should make it even better but at the end of the battery, it was a monkey car (so easy to drive, a monkey can do it...or someone with little to no talent, me)

In any event, I'll post the video later.

For now, here's a post-track picture...still in one piece and seems to have multiplied


Warning: Adult content containing F104 pron


Where's Waldo?
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtypec View Post
Hi All,

Here's the video from yesterday's and today's runs with the F104 X1. For the most part, the videos are unedited. However, I had to cut a bunch out to fit my youtube video length limit.

Thanks to Kevin, Mark, and Brian for filming.
+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


Not exactly dialed out of the box, but it is certainly a work in progress. I need to digest info gathered from yesterday's and today's setup changes and sort out what I'll try next week. Hmm...need to figure this out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtypec View Post
How do you know?

In all seriousness, it depends on the body that you're running. If you're using one of the older bodies, then you might want to look into the wings from a Lotus 107B...the front and rear wings have the most downforce out of all of Tamiya's one piece wings. If you want to go even further with a rear wing, you can use the wing from the Ferrari 412. You can adjust the angle of the wing to the point where it is nearly vertical, stalls out, and becomes a barn door dragging down the straight...



...but then again, I don't know.
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