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Tamiya F104 Pro!

Old 04-29-2011, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by MantisWorx View Post
a couple of clips of my IRS chassis
nice touch with the green stripes for the option tyres.
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Old 04-29-2011, 02:49 PM
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I am just waiting for my F104 to get here. I have a few different ideas to try to get more down force on the car. I think getting a diffuser that works could be a big benefit to these traction lacking cars.

Now back to researching more of the aerodynamic tricks used in F1.
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Old 04-29-2011, 03:52 PM
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thanx for the kind comments guys

ok the difuser works almost too good, at the big track it pushes soooooo bad on the high speed sweeper but not very much through the rest of the track. the front wing is too flexible to allow any real usable downforce, i added some winglets at one time to the front wing it it make a drastic difference but looked hideous! the green stripes are there because i actually have caps on the front tires! i cut up a pair of old Soft ride rear tires, pulled the belt off and glued it to the existing tire, it gives me enough grip to compensate for the diffuser in the rear at least until i can figure out how to get more DF in the front. because the car is mid-motor and IRS, downforce actually works. on a pod car if you think about it any DF you get from the wing will push the chassis up, the wing needs to be mounted to the main chassis to be functional. The side plates are giving you stability but its really impossible for the rear wing to actually push the rear tires down.

yes that is Spaztix chrome paint, i think i got the last two bottles in existence!! i dont think they make it anymore
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Old 04-29-2011, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by MantisWorx View Post
because the car is mid-motor and IRS, downforce actually works. on a pod car if you think about it any DF you get from the wing will push the chassis up, the wing needs to be mounted to the main chassis to be functional. The side plates are giving you stability but its really impossible for the rear wing to actually push the rear tires down.
This is one thing I am trying to work out. Sure you can put a diffuser on the car but will it actually function correctly?? This is one of the things I am looking forward to with getting a F1 car. Getting to build and try some different things to get the best handling car I can get. I already have some ideas for building a IRS car like you have. I think that is the only way to get a car that can take advantage of the aerodynamic down force available? It could make the F1 class really interesting if people started building there own chassis's to race.
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Old 04-29-2011, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by CR0SS View Post
This is one thing I am trying to work out. Sure you can put a diffuser on the car but will it actually function correctly?? This is one of the things I am looking forward to with getting a F1 car. Getting to build and try some different things to get the best handling car I can get. I already have some ideas for building a IRS car like you have. I think that is the only way to get a car that can take advantage of the aerodynamic down force available? It could make the F1 class really interesting if people started building there own chassis's to race.
for two straight days i studied diffusers and how they really work. i know that if you take your TC and put a gurney flap on the wing , the car pushes bad. with that being said, at our big track we reach in the high 50's lows 60's on the straight. it simply has to work if designed properly. 60mph on a real car aero makes a difference. i know for a fact if i remove the diffuser, the car doesnt push nearly as bad but the rear wants to get loose. diffuser on and the back is stuck but the car pushes bad.in general with the diffuser the car is very stable. one of the most important thing i discovered about diffusers is that they are in-effective unless you are able to draw clean air into it. so just adding a short diffuser at the back of the car does little of anything except turbulate the air. so in order to make a diffuser work on a pod chassis it would have to somehow mount to the main chassis and not the pod.


i agree on the custom stuff but getting people to travel across the nation to compete is not as easy as i thought. My F1 race is tomorrow and nobody outside of texas is coming. i think there should always be a open class to see what the cars evolve into! i think i have proven that my IRS car is at the very least is equal to but i think is better than the pan style, at least on asphalt. i dont have a carpet track local and we dont run 21.5 here but if a 3.25 gear ratio will work with a 21.5 i will test that soon. what gear ratio do you use?
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Old 04-29-2011, 07:59 PM
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Very well done sir.
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Old 04-29-2011, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by MantisWorx View Post
for two straight days i studied diffusers and how they really work. i know that if you take your TC and put a gurney flap on the wing , the car pushes bad. with that being said, at our big track we reach in the high 50's lows 60's on the straight. it simply has to work if designed properly. 60mph on a real car aero makes a difference. i know for a fact if i remove the diffuser, the car doesnt push nearly as bad but the rear wants to get loose. diffuser on and the back is stuck but the car pushes bad.in general with the diffuser the car is very stable. one of the most important thing i discovered about diffusers is that they are in-effective unless you are able to draw clean air into it. so just adding a short diffuser at the back of the car does little of anything except turbulate the air. so in order to make a diffuser work on a pod chassis it would have to somehow mount to the main chassis and not the pod.
I have been looking into diffusers also. I know the underside of the chassis will need to be smooth with no holes. I am thinking of more or less making a chassis protector that matches the body not just the chassis, that works with the diffuser. The diffuser pulls the air out from under the chassis creating a low pressure zone(downforce). Anything that disrupts this airflow will kill the down force. The diffuser is just part of the system. The other part is a smooth under body to pull air from. Getting the two things working together is what creates the down force. This is where a rear pod style car could have issues. The diffuser creates more rear down force since the underside of the body is largest towards the rear making the largest part of the low pressure zone towards the rear of the car.

It is interesting what you have said about the front wing being to flexible. I wonder what can be done to stiffen it up to allow for more down force. Although in F1 the Red Bull RB7 seems to be using a flexible wing to an advantage, or at least that is what they are accused of

Of course down force is only effective at speed. So this will not do much at low speeds. Although you have to wonder how fast do these cars need to be moving to create down force? Any one have a scale wind tunnel?

Originally Posted by MantisWorx View Post
i agree on the custom stuff but getting people to travel across the nation to compete is not as easy as i thought. My F1 race is tomorrow and nobody outside of texas is coming. i think there should always be a open class to see what the cars evolve into! i think i have proven that my IRS car is at the very least is equal to but i think is better than the pan style, at least on asphalt. i dont have a carpet track local and we dont run 21.5 here but if a 3.25 gear ratio will work with a 21.5 i will test that soon. what gear ratio do you use?
Putting on a race is not easy. Good job on putting the work in! Although for a first race you should not expect much interest from far away unless you have a big cash purse and a ton of prizes, make people think the are almost guaranteed to leave with something. People will just not take the gamble on a first time race. The second year if your first year was successful word gets out and it will seem like less of a gamble to travel a long distance to race. If you have a successful first year the attendance will only be a fraction of what it will be in the following years.

For now I will just be using the stock 104 gear ratio. I will not have my car until next week.
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Old 04-29-2011, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by CR0SS View Post
I have been looking into diffusers also. I know the underside of the chassis will need to be smooth with no holes. I am thinking of more or less making a chassis protector that matches the body not just the chassis, that works with the diffuser. The diffuser pulls the air out from under the chassis creating a low pressure zone(downforce). Anything that disrupts this airflow will kill the down force. The diffuser is just part of the system. The other part is a smooth under body to pull air from. Getting the two things working together is what creates the down force. This is where a rear pod style car could have issues. The diffuser creates more rear down force since the underside of the body is largest towards the rear making the largest part of the low pressure zone towards the rear of the car.
This is pretty key...having a flat chassis with little to no gaps where the air can get up into the body. A diffuser can work on a pod car...problem is most attempts at creating one start the diffuser behind the pod where it will be too short both in length and height to be effective. I've seen 2 back in the old days that worked. The first I believe was made by Technicraft. On their system the lower pod plate ended right below the motor (not behind the axle like most pan cars). This allowed them to start the diffuser under the motor where it extended out back behind the pod by a couple of inches. It was made for oval racing originally so they had a lot of room behind the pod. But by the time it got to the rear axle it was over 1/2" high and at it's full length it was as tall if not taller than the pod itself. The other effective one I saw was a full aero oval car with tunnel under chassis. The pod was inside the diffuser on that one. That was made by some former TRD designers and generated something like 11lbs of downforce at speed.

Starting a race isn't easy...let along a national race. Especially for just 1 class. It will take time for the reputation to build enough to attract people from outside of your area. Be patient and it wll get there.
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Old 04-29-2011, 09:26 PM
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thanx for the encouragement guys, i MAY try and do another one near the end of the year.
Onething about a DFSR (diffuser) on a POD chassis is that you would need to raise the pod up to allow clearance for the DFSR. it will be more effective than the wing for sure.
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Old 04-29-2011, 10:09 PM
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On a car like the F104 there is enough room behind the pod for a diffuser. Even more on the Exotek chassis. Of course starting it earlier would make a more effective diffuser. If you look at the full size F1 cars the diffuser does not start until the mid point of the rear axle. On our cars if we scaled down the F1 rules for a "realistic" class the rear diffuser could not be more than 35mm long starting from the mid point of the rear axle and 17.5mm tall at the rear of the car. They would also be limited to 9mm across. Again having a smooth underside of the car before the diffuser is key to gain any down force.

Some links for others that might want to do their own research:
http://lowdownblog.com/2009/04/13/f1...iffuser-works/
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2009/03/2...e-controversy/
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2009/03/2...e-controversy/ scroll down
http://www.formula1.com/news/technic...1/848/850.html
http://www.formula1.com/news/technical/2011/0/815.html


Hmmm..after more reading tonight I have a better idea of how the higher downforce producing double diffusers work. Might have to try doing this also
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Old 04-30-2011, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by MantisWorx View Post
for two straight days i studied diffusers and how they really work. i know that if you take your TC and put a gurney flap on the wing , the car pushes bad. with that being said, at our big track we reach in the high 50's lows 60's on the straight. it simply has to work if designed properly. 60mph on a real car aero makes a difference. i know for a fact if i remove the diffuser, the car doesnt push nearly as bad but the rear wants to get loose. diffuser on and the back is stuck but the car pushes bad.in general with the diffuser the car is very stable. one of the most important thing i discovered about diffusers is that they are in-effective unless you are able to draw clean air into it. so just adding a short diffuser at the back of the car does little of anything except turbulate the air. so in order to make a diffuser work on a pod chassis it would have to somehow mount to the main chassis and not the pod.


i agree on the custom stuff but getting people to travel across the nation to compete is not as easy as i thought. My F1 race is tomorrow and nobody outside of texas is coming. i think there should always be a open class to see what the cars evolve into! i think i have proven that my IRS car is at the very least is equal to but i think is better than the pan style, at least on asphalt. i dont have a carpet track local and we dont run 21.5 here but if a 3.25 gear ratio will work with a 21.5 i will test that soon. what gear ratio do you use?
I wanted to come to your race, but limited funds has kept me here in Michigan. I have been buying inventory left and right for F1PAINTLAB, so my travel budget is pretty much zero right now, if you do it next year I will be there, maybe with my own chassis
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Old 05-01-2011, 04:31 PM
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hello,

Im a great F1 fan , and thinking in acquiring one of this kits.

My question is :

Can i have a Mclaren MP4/6 on a F104 Pro black chassis ? as far as i saw , the maclaren comes with f104W kit

Is it possible or exist aftermarket ? thanks
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Old 05-01-2011, 04:48 PM
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You would need the pro black kit, an F103 front suspension, and the McLaren body set.

The F104W is really just an F103 front end and tires added to the F104 chassis.
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Old 05-01-2011, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by robk View Post
...and the McLaren body set.
Looking forward to being able to purchase the MP4/6 body, decals and wings separately—whenever that might be...
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Old 05-01-2011, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by squarehead View Post
Looking forward to being able to purchase the MP4/6 body, decals and wings separately—whenever that might be...
I will be stocking all of the parts for all of the releases, I have 4 Lotus 99t's in stock and ready to ship, still need to get the helmets and wing struts though
dgomes you have pm!!
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