14LikesTamiya F104 Pro!
08-19-2010, 07:56 PM
#3181
The width of the car makes it so much better, that if the tires work ok, it's all over for the normal F104. It would have to be a separate class.
Example: On carpet the F103 is usually .3-.4 sec. per lap faster than an F104 on foams. The cars are not radically different, except in width and length.
Example: On carpet the F103 is usually .3-.4 sec. per lap faster than an F104 on foams. The cars are not radically different, except in width and length.
The weight distribution of the battery between the two cars is most likely also be a contributer to their relative performance. Putting some weight over the back wheels helping is possibly a testament to this.
Either way, I still have a blast driving it!
Ran close to a 70mm rollout at a large outdoor track recently with a GTB hooked up to a 17.5T and it was simply good fun. Motor was only starting to get above ambient temperatures, so I probably could have gone harder.
08-19-2010, 08:15 PM
#3182
I'm no A-main driver, but I've switched to the 103 front arms on my 104 and there hasn't been a transformational change in the handling. Perhaps there are some other issues lurking in my setup, but I'd rank tires as the biggest single influence over how the car goes.
The weight distribution of the battery between the two cars is most likely also be a contributer to their relative performance. Putting some weight over the back wheels helping is possibly a testament to this.
Either way, I still have a blast driving it!
Ran close to a 70mm rollout at a large outdoor track recently with a GTB hooked up to a 17.5T and it was simply good fun. Motor was only starting to get above ambient temperatures, so I probably could have gone harder.
The weight distribution of the battery between the two cars is most likely also be a contributer to their relative performance. Putting some weight over the back wheels helping is possibly a testament to this.
Either way, I still have a blast driving it!
Ran close to a 70mm rollout at a large outdoor track recently with a GTB hooked up to a 17.5T and it was simply good fun. Motor was only starting to get above ambient temperatures, so I probably could have gone harder.
So 103 arms with 103 tires front and rear? 104 rears make the car much narrower.
As far as my comparison, the thing to me is that the 104 probably has better tires at least with the foams. The rim is larger, and the compound a bit more suited to carpet, but the geometry I think holds it back
08-19-2010, 09:05 PM
#3183
I tested the new Wolf F104 tires and the verdict was instant understeer at an indoor track at about 70 degree temp. Stock tires on the same F104 gave oversteer. The tire combo is not as stuck as the foam tires, but it is better than the stock tire combo.
The two biggest concerns with the new tires are ballooning at high rpm and ride height. The carcass expands at bit as the rpm's increase, which may give inconsistent handling. The new tires are so large that rear of the car is up compared to stock F104 tires.
I am not sure if the front tire is the same tiny tire previously found on the Tamiya Tyrell six-wheeler kit. If somebody know, speak up!
The two biggest concerns with the new tires are ballooning at high rpm and ride height. The carcass expands at bit as the rpm's increase, which may give inconsistent handling. The new tires are so large that rear of the car is up compared to stock F104 tires.
I am not sure if the front tire is the same tiny tire previously found on the Tamiya Tyrell six-wheeler kit. If somebody know, speak up!
You can ease the ballooning by reaming a bigger hole on the rims. I usually ream about another 1-2mm wider than usual.
08-19-2010, 09:09 PM
#3184
I hope they do NOT ban the new Wolf at the TCS due to something like "limited availability." It was advertised a long time ago, released, and those who planned ahead had plenty of opportunity to get one. Heck, the car is already past advertising as the NEXT body set, the Lotus, is already being advertised.
Front suspension does not change the chassis. The precedent was set with the F103 which had three different front end arms (the original black plastic arms, the trick caster-changing arms, and finally the hard gray carbon arms). To me, these were tuning options to be bolted on/off as needed.
But no crazy combos - somebody who tries to run long arms with a narrow body or vice versa should not pass tech. That fits the spirit of F1 rule number 5, no mixing of wings. The Wolf is sold as an F104, I say let them have at it!
But they will probably ban it anyway because there are plenty of treacherous ex-F103 drivers with ten+ years of experience that would take the extra width, the different rear wing, the wide body, and the different tires and tune a very competitive car. You know, looking for the unfair advantage!
At the very least, somebody who bolts a set of soft option rear tires and hard fronts onto the Wolf should be stable. And with the correct tire inserts, They might be very competitive...perhaps to the extent to lap the narrow-car field?
One thing that made F1 interesting was the different cars the manufacturers brought to compete. Nowadays everybody tries to copycat and the paint is the only way to tell them apart. But if Tamiya keeps releasing more body sets from different eras for the F104, we could have some interesting battles!
What do you think? Predictions please!
Front suspension does not change the chassis. The precedent was set with the F103 which had three different front end arms (the original black plastic arms, the trick caster-changing arms, and finally the hard gray carbon arms). To me, these were tuning options to be bolted on/off as needed.
But no crazy combos - somebody who tries to run long arms with a narrow body or vice versa should not pass tech. That fits the spirit of F1 rule number 5, no mixing of wings. The Wolf is sold as an F104, I say let them have at it!
But they will probably ban it anyway because there are plenty of treacherous ex-F103 drivers with ten+ years of experience that would take the extra width, the different rear wing, the wide body, and the different tires and tune a very competitive car. You know, looking for the unfair advantage!
At the very least, somebody who bolts a set of soft option rear tires and hard fronts onto the Wolf should be stable. And with the correct tire inserts, They might be very competitive...perhaps to the extent to lap the narrow-car field?
One thing that made F1 interesting was the different cars the manufacturers brought to compete. Nowadays everybody tries to copycat and the paint is the only way to tell them apart. But if Tamiya keeps releasing more body sets from different eras for the F104, we could have some interesting battles!
What do you think? Predictions please!
From what i seen, its only the front of the Wolf 104 which uses the 103 fronts right?? Unless there are changes to the rear, as in to make it wider, i guess, that will make a difference.
08-20-2010, 02:41 AM
#3185
Suspended
Hey all
i was just wanting to know how faster the F104 stock goes compared to a Stock TT-01e
thanks
i was just wanting to know how faster the F104 stock goes compared to a Stock TT-01e
thanks
08-20-2010, 10:48 AM
#3186
Wolf in Sheep's clothing
Not gonna happen this year:
Already checked. Gary said f104w is not allowed in this years tcs finals.
Already checked. Gary said f104w is not allowed in this years tcs finals.
08-20-2010, 10:52 AM
#3187
pan car vs. touring car.
2wd direct with a diff vs. 4wd with front and rear diff.
there is different rollout for f1 car and touring car.
it's all box stock, f104 should reach close to 30 mph, tt01e is going to be around 20mph with 6 cell non-lipo battery pack.
2wd direct with a diff vs. 4wd with front and rear diff.
there is different rollout for f1 car and touring car.
it's all box stock, f104 should reach close to 30 mph, tt01e is going to be around 20mph with 6 cell non-lipo battery pack.
08-20-2010, 10:54 AM
#3188
08-20-2010, 11:37 AM
#3189
Tamiya size specs; F60 vs. Wolf
car width: 180 vs. 205 mm (Wolf's is wider).
length: 410 vs. 463 mm (The Wolf's front protection bumper!).
rubber front tire width: 28 vs. 24 mm (the Wolf's fronts are slimmer).
rubber rear tire width: 35 vs. 47 mm (the Wolf's rears are wider)
rubber front diameter: 62.5 vs. 55 mm (F60 has taller tires)
Lots of other small differences.
car width: 180 vs. 205 mm (Wolf's is wider).
length: 410 vs. 463 mm (The Wolf's front protection bumper!).
rubber front tire width: 28 vs. 24 mm (the Wolf's fronts are slimmer).
rubber rear tire width: 35 vs. 47 mm (the Wolf's rears are wider)
rubber front diameter: 62.5 vs. 55 mm (F60 has taller tires)
Lots of other small differences.
08-20-2010, 06:44 PM
#3190
UF1 Series
T-35 Days...
3 minute fast lap qualifier ( pressure, pressure, pressure )
15 minute races
2 mandatory pit stops
Foam and rubber run separately
http://www.charleslightfoot.com/UF1SD.html
3 minute fast lap qualifier ( pressure, pressure, pressure )
15 minute races
2 mandatory pit stops
Foam and rubber run separately
http://www.charleslightfoot.com/UF1SD.html
08-20-2010, 08:55 PM
#3191
So 103 arms with 103 tires front and rear? 104 rears make the car much narrower.
As far as my comparison, the thing to me is that the 104 probably has better tires at least with the foams. The rim is larger, and the compound a bit more suited to carpet, but the geometry I think holds it back
As far as my comparison, the thing to me is that the 104 probably has better tires at least with the foams. The rim is larger, and the compound a bit more suited to carpet, but the geometry I think holds it back
Got a set of TRG Superions to try this Tuesday night, along with the high traction T-bar. My fallback is the softer Ride 104 rubber set.
08-21-2010, 05:34 PM
#3192
Tech Addict
Quick question, will the wheels from the 104 work on the 103? Thanks.
Dave
Dave
08-21-2010, 11:48 PM
#3193
08-24-2010, 05:34 PM
#3194
Tech Adept
iTrader: (28)
Finally, some info on the F104!! There isn't much on the net except a few good youtube vids and scattered info. I'm glad to finally find some other drivers. I love this car, it is too bad it is not more popular.
I just got my F104 Pro a few weeks ago. I run it in a rough parking lot with some friends against some old touring cars and a 4wd F1 car. It has been tough getting it to drive fast like my touring cars, but it is finally starting to come around and keep up with the other cars... if I could just keep it in one piece for more than a few runs
I know it won't drive as well as the touring cars on this kind of surface but I'll try whatever I can to make it work. I have read quite a bit of this thread but the info is pretty scattered which makes it hard to follow. I am running soft rubber tires in the rear and foams up front. I am running the "2" camber setting with a bit of toe out. The only upgrades I have are the aluminum motor mount and pivot post. Are there any tricks/tips you guys might have to get a bit more grip? It hooks up pretty good, but when I push it too hard, the rear spins out fairly easy. We don't have any rules/restrictions, we are just having fun so anything goes.
I just got my F104 Pro a few weeks ago. I run it in a rough parking lot with some friends against some old touring cars and a 4wd F1 car. It has been tough getting it to drive fast like my touring cars, but it is finally starting to come around and keep up with the other cars... if I could just keep it in one piece for more than a few runs
I know it won't drive as well as the touring cars on this kind of surface but I'll try whatever I can to make it work. I have read quite a bit of this thread but the info is pretty scattered which makes it hard to follow. I am running soft rubber tires in the rear and foams up front. I am running the "2" camber setting with a bit of toe out. The only upgrades I have are the aluminum motor mount and pivot post. Are there any tricks/tips you guys might have to get a bit more grip? It hooks up pretty good, but when I push it too hard, the rear spins out fairly easy. We don't have any rules/restrictions, we are just having fun so anything goes.
Last edited by Funky; 08-24-2010 at 06:02 PM.
08-24-2010, 06:44 PM
#3195
Funkydude,
Why do you have foam up front and rubber in the rear?
If you run rubber and have the soft option rears and are spinning out, try the hard option fronts.
The 2 option on the camber plate up front is adding to your oversteering problem I'd say.
To get the rear as stuck as possible, run the hi traction T bar and set it and the pivot adjustment very loose.
Softest spring on the shock and lite wt. oil like 20wt.
You can even go as far as use a softer than stock o ring on the T bar.
After that you need to kill the steering with the stiff black springs up front and can even go to the 3.5 offset steering spindles to get some push.
After that, clean your track with brooms and blowers and dump several liters of soda on it.
You'll be dialed now.
Why do you have foam up front and rubber in the rear?
If you run rubber and have the soft option rears and are spinning out, try the hard option fronts.
The 2 option on the camber plate up front is adding to your oversteering problem I'd say.
To get the rear as stuck as possible, run the hi traction T bar and set it and the pivot adjustment very loose.
Softest spring on the shock and lite wt. oil like 20wt.
You can even go as far as use a softer than stock o ring on the T bar.
After that you need to kill the steering with the stiff black springs up front and can even go to the 3.5 offset steering spindles to get some push.
After that, clean your track with brooms and blowers and dump several liters of soda on it.
You'll be dialed now.
