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Tamiya F104 Pro!

Old 05-13-2010, 11:16 AM
  #2686  
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Originally Posted by RedBullFiXX View Post
While offset axles do shorten the wheelbase by 3.5mm, that is not the point of their use in tuning.

Offset axles locate the axle behind the kingpin to change the way a car turns, and have a profound effect on handling and added stability.

One can expect mid corner, to corner exit under-steer with this option.
Don't ask why, but this got me thinking about geometry. With offset axles, the effect of caster is amplified when turning. There is no caster difference when going straight.

To see what that meant to weight transfer, I threw my 104 with offset axles on the gram scales and got this:

LF RF
224 221 -- wheels straight
205 241 -- wheels right lock
259 188 -- wheels left lock

Obviously, I have more travel to the left than to the right. Guess I'll address that later. The point is that there is considerable weight transfer -- more than I'd expect from caster alone. If anyone has scales and a 104 with inline axles, we can see those numbers as well.

So the effect is that as I steer right, the right front loads up, but also sends weight to the left rear. As this dynamic happens, you'd expect the car to turn smartly to the right. As I exit the turn and reduce steering lock, the weight gets more neutral and the car wants to go straight, bringing on the corner exit understeer that RedBull mentions.

I'm new to pan car setup, but an experienced friend of mine tells me that you can never have enough caster. He may be on to something. The offset axle is a clever way to add needed caster effect when you can't get it otherwise.
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Old 05-13-2010, 01:36 PM
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Anyone done chassis/top deck testing with rubber tires(F104pro CF vs fiberglass F60)?
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Old 05-14-2010, 12:27 AM
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Originally Posted by JayL View Post
Anyone done chassis/top deck testing with rubber tires(F104pro CF vs fiberglass F60)?
Back to back testing nope, but the fibreglass chassis/top deck combination provides more traction/flex on asphalt.

On carpet, might want to revert back to CF.

Personally, before the fibreglass chassis/top deck was available, i ran CF on asphalt and the car is abit washy even with foams. Crazy stuffs you need to do to find grip. With the fibreglass chassis/top deck, i have better traction/flex generally and lesser stuffs to do to find the grip.

In theory, soft setup for asphalt and hard setup for carpet.
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Old 05-14-2010, 12:30 AM
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Anyone know where to get the fibreglass chassis and top deck?
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Old 05-14-2010, 05:37 AM
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Originally Posted by alan1467 View Post
Anyone know where to get the fibreglass chassis and top deck?
Wondering the same. For now we may have to part out a F60. Not bad when you think you get the frp chassis, F60 bodyset, a crappy set of rubber tires and spare front end parts and a metal axel
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Old 05-14-2010, 05:47 AM
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Originally Posted by cheROK1212 View Post
Wondering the same. For now we may have to part out a F60. Not bad when you think you get the frp chassis, F60 bodyset, a crappy set of rubber tires and spare front end parts and a metal axel
I ordered mine through Tamiya America directly. I realize you guys aren't in the States, so that wouldnt be an option for you. I am just finishing up the build of my FG car, although I am running the carbon top deck because I won it in the raffle at the TCS race.
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Old 05-14-2010, 06:06 AM
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While we are on the topic of top decks,I need some help.
I can't get a satisfying fit for my bullet style lipo packs (checkpoint and and zippy).
I have my upper deck notched in the rear but can not get my -,+ wires in the pack in a way that does not either hit the friction plate (full deflection) or rub the underside of the body..(unless I rase the rear of the body up high on the posts).
I have tried standing the connectors straight up and also at a 90 bend and just can't get it to fit right. Sloppy wires and too close to the graphite for my liking.
I have thought about chopping off the front half of the upper deck and just taping the pack to the chassis. Could use some pics of you setups if you are using bullet connectors.

Thanks for any help.
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Old 05-14-2010, 06:17 AM
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Originally Posted by j.d.roost View Post
While we are on the topic of top decks,I need some help.
I can't get a satisfying fit for my bullet style lipo packs (checkpoint and and zippy).
I have my upper deck notched in the rear but can not get my -,+ wires in the pack in a way that does not either hit the friction plate (full deflection) or rub the underside of the body..(unless I rase the rear of the body up high on the posts).
I have tried standing the connectors straight up and also at a 90 bend and just can't get it to fit right. Sloppy wires and too close to the graphite for my liking.
I have thought about chopping off the front half of the upper deck and just taping the pack to the chassis. Could use some pics of you setups if you are using bullet connectors.

Thanks for any help.
Here's a pic of mine -- Orion 3600 lipo. I cut a section of the top deck completely away (I race on outdoor asphalt so the flex is welcome). I left the front portion of the top deck there to hold the battery retainer piece. Works perfectly!
Attached Thumbnails Tamiya F104 Pro!-f104pro_built.jpg  
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Old 05-14-2010, 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted by BP SHADOW View Post
I ordered mine through Tamiya America directly. I realize you guys aren't in the States, so that wouldnt be an option for you. I am just finishing up the build of my FG car, although I am running the carbon top deck because I won it in the raffle at the TCS race.
Thanks, just ordered also.
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Old 05-14-2010, 07:21 AM
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That helps.
Thanks.
I notice that you are running your steering servo vertical.
Any benefit to this?
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Old 05-14-2010, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by j.d.roost View Post
That helps.
Thanks.
I notice that you are running your steering servo vertical.
Any benefit to this?
It's a low-profile servo so I tried it this way. My steering is so incredibly twitchy I'm starting to think this may be a factor, so I'm going to try it the regular way next. It packaged nice this way though. I'm also thinking about trying a good ol' $13 sloooow servo to calm things down.
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Old 05-14-2010, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by reenmachine View Post
Here's a pic of mine -- Orion 3600 lipo. I cut a section of the top deck completely away (I race on outdoor asphalt so the flex is welcome). I left the front portion of the top deck there to hold the battery retainer piece. Works perfectly!
Hi are you using the red touring soft spring?
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Old 05-14-2010, 06:08 PM
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Anybody have any tips for gluing the F104 rubber tires? (Tamiya ones).

Thanks!
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Old 05-14-2010, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by bl4 View Post
Hi are you using the red touring soft spring?
It's more of a bright orange...don't remember where it came from but it's soft.

Whatever you do, don't look to my pics for setup hints. My car is all over the place right now.
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Old 05-14-2010, 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Arthur Burns View Post
Anybody have any tips for gluing the F104 rubber tires? (Tamiya ones).

Thanks!
I can answer that one...considering I just glued up 3 sets of rears I use Panther tire bands to hold the tire to the rim...sometimes, I use extra rubber bands. That and a fine tip glue attachment with uber thin CA works.
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