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Old 09-12-2010, 08:14 PM   #136
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Thanks for the great program BobW....I know what kind of struggle it is to teach yourself VB. But what a fun struggle it is.

I will have to see if I can put it to good use for my Cyclone TC and Sprint 2 Sport.
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Old 09-24-2010, 04:12 PM   #137
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Any one have the numbers for a TC5R? I thought i seen someone say that they were posted but i could not find them.
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Old 09-26-2010, 02:34 PM   #138
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I just create a model for TCX using the latest Hara IIC setup...

The fact is that I don't modelize the different anchor point, or shimes... The graph is too small to click on the different points...

Anyway, it's easy to modify existing model...

I'm doing screenshots and I upload them...

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Old 09-26-2010, 02:40 PM   #139
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I haven't checked the whole thread but has anyone done this for the XRay T3 yet?
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Old 01-07-2011, 05:23 AM   #140
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Bob, this is a very useful program.

I'd been looking at purchasing a full-size motorsport app and using it for RC, so having your app for free is very nice!

I run several different cars and it's very nice being able to compare roll-centres between cars. I'm changing cars shortly so it will be very useful seeing how the new TC6 compares to my old Yokomo BD.

It's also very useful for seeing what effect setup changes have and then seeing how they correlate to track testing.

There are a few little bugs I'd like to fix, any chance of getting the source code? I'm a software developer by trade so I'm sure I could pick it up very quickly.
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Old 01-07-2011, 05:34 AM   #141
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Thanks Dale

I'm actually starting to work on a program that will provide even more help with setup. Very similar to full scale app but built for RC.

If you let me know what the bugs are I will fix them. Don't really want to release the source code.
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Old 01-07-2011, 06:07 AM   #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Airwave View Post
I just create a model for TCX using the latest Hara IIC setup...
Hi Airwave ! I see you've also put this little gem to good use.

BobW : a million thanks again for your program. May I ask why you'd prefer not share the code ? I have absolutely no competence in this domain , I am just curious, huh-huh

In an attempt to modelize the suspension of my offroad B4, I've met some difficulties in accounting for the massive amount of front kickup (around 30 degress) How could I include this parameter in relation to the others ? My general car suspension abilities are a bit limited although I kind of understand the essential points i.e. camber gain and roll center. In my previous modelizations I've worked on TCs so the kickup and toe-in angles were ( in my understanding) pretty negligble.

Further suggestions : one thing I've always been curious to see, apart from the parmaters already available, is a way of obtaining a graph which would show the dynamic roll center / camber gains. I might very well be wrong but I gather one could get the same static roll center with different upper and-or lower arm positions, and yet have a totally different dynamic responses, for instance linear or exponential, or logarithmic or anything else. Same for camber gain and other angle variations. If I am wrong someone correct me, I am here to learn. I am not saying I would be able to exploit these extra features, I am just very, VERY curious.

Same for the shock lever and angle ( bottom and top anchor) : being able to get a visual quantification of the lever effect and its variations throughout the travel of the supsension would be super nice.

My main source of info is Staniforth's "competition car suspension" BTW. Don't hesitate to redirect me to particular chapters if someone has this book and don't want to spend 20 minutes typing.
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Old 01-07-2011, 06:46 AM   #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobW View Post
Thanks Dale

I'm actually starting to work on a program that will provide even more help with setup. Very similar to full scale app but built for RC.

If you let me know what the bugs are I will fix them. Don't really want to release the source code.
The ones I can currently think of are:
  • On the 'Model' tab, whenever you exit an edit control, it changes back to the 'Model' view, which means you have to keep changing back to 'Variables' view when you're putting in a new car and are working through the variables.
  • On the Setup tab, it sometimes loses the selected pickup points and ends up with random RC values. I think this happens when switching between cars. It doesn't always do it, but it's quite frequent. Picture here of the result (note the missing circles):
    http://www.rc-timing.com/other/RCBug1.Png

I would also like to see how much the RC changes with chassis roll. Given that the 'animate' button can show what happens during roll, I guess it's not too much work to add a 'RC change for 5 deg chassis roll' type of output. This would be the #1 priority for me as the three things that the setup affects are initial RC, camber change and RC change.

With that said I want to repeat that this is a great tool, and clearly the result of a lot of work (which is why I'm using it rather than writing one myself ).
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Old 01-07-2011, 07:47 AM   #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heretic View Post
Hi Airwave ! I see you've also put this little gem to good use.

BobW : a million thanks again for your program. May I ask why you'd prefer not share the code ? I have absolutely no competence in this domain , I am just curious, huh-huh

In an attempt to modelize the suspension of my offroad B4, I've met some difficulties in accounting for the massive amount of front kickup (around 30 degress) How could I include this parameter in relation to the others ? My general car suspension abilities are a bit limited although I kind of understand the essential points i.e. camber gain and roll center. In my previous modelizations I've worked on TCs so the kickup and toe-in angles were ( in my understanding) pretty negligble.

Further suggestions : one thing I've always been curious to see, apart from the parmaters already available, is a way of obtaining a graph which would show the dynamic roll center / camber gains. I might very well be wrong but I gather one could get the same static roll center with different upper and-or lower arm positions, and yet have a totally different dynamic responses, for instance linear or exponential, or logarithmic or anything else. Same for camber gain and other angle variations. If I am wrong someone correct me, I am here to learn. I am not saying I would be able to exploit these extra features, I am just very, VERY curious.

Same for the shock lever and angle ( bottom and top anchor) : being able to get a visual quantification of the lever effect and its variations throughout the travel of the supsension would be super nice.

My main source of info is Staniforth's "competition car suspension" BTW. Don't hesitate to redirect me to particular chapters if someone has this book and don't want to spend 20 minutes typing.
I guess I am just selfish when it comes to the source code. I spent 6 months working on the program and want to expand the capabilites. I might ask a few $ for the next one to help recover my investment in purchasing software, books and of course many, many hours of my time.

The program was basically developed for sedans so I ignored the effect of Kick-up and anti-squat. As you noted these angles are normally small. In your case if you set the height of the inner hinge as the average between the fore/aft mounting points it should be close. So if your hinge pin is 40mm long and the kickup is 30 degrees then the average would be 40/2*sin(30) = 10mm. Add that value to the height of the hinge pin above the chassis and it should be close.

I already have the math worked out for the shock angles and positions. Just not in a useable form. That will be part of the next version.

Dynamic roll centre changes require both sides of the car to be modelled. To be perfectly accurate you really need to model all 4 corners. I hope to include some form of this in the next version.
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Old 01-07-2011, 07:51 AM   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daleburr View Post
The ones I can currently think of are:
  • On the 'Model' tab, whenever you exit an edit control, it changes back to the 'Model' view, which means you have to keep changing back to 'Variables' view when you're putting in a new car and are working through the variables.
  • On the Setup tab, it sometimes loses the selected pickup points and ends up with random RC values. I think this happens when switching between cars. It doesn't always do it, but it's quite frequent. Picture here of the result (note the missing circles):
    http://www.rc-timing.com/other/RCBug1.Png

I would also like to see how much the RC changes with chassis roll. Given that the 'animate' button can show what happens during roll, I guess it's not too much work to add a 'RC change for 5 deg chassis roll' type of output. This would be the #1 priority for me as the three things that the setup affects are initial RC, camber change and RC change.

With that said I want to repeat that this is a great tool, and clearly the result of a lot of work (which is why I'm using it rather than writing one myself ).
I'll have a look and see if I can replicate the bugs. As you know sometimes these things can be hard to find.

Thanks for all the feedback guys. Glad you are finding it helpful.
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Old 01-07-2011, 11:05 AM   #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobW View Post
I guess I am just selfish when it comes to the source code. I spent 6 months working on the program and want to expand the capabilites. I might ask a few $ for the next one to help recover my investment in purchasing software, books and of course many, many hours of my time.

I already have the math worked out for the shock angles and positions. Just not in a useable form. That will be part of the next version.

Dynamic roll centre changes require both sides of the car to be modelled. To be perfectly accurate you really need to model all 4 corners. I hope to include some form of this in the next version.

Thank you again Sir.
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Old 01-15-2011, 12:03 PM   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daleburr View Post
The ones I can currently think of are:
  • On the 'Model' tab, whenever you exit an edit control, it changes back to the 'Model' view, which means you have to keep changing back to 'Variables' view when you're putting in a new car and are working through the variables.
  • On the Setup tab, it sometimes loses the selected pickup points and ends up with random RC values. I think this happens when switching between cars. It doesn't always do it, but it's quite frequent. Picture here of the result (note the missing circles):
    http://www.rc-timing.com/other/RCBug1.Png
I've had a look at your bugs with limited success.

The first one is not a bug, I intentionally programed it this way as I didn't expect a lot of data entry on the model screen, just maybe tweaking a value. The intent was to instantly show the user graphically the effect of the new value. If you plan on making lots of changes to the basic suspension geometry it may be easier to use the new model method. On this screen the "Variables" graphic is static. This method would create a new model though.

I haven't been able to recreate the second bug. I've tried all different combinations with no luck. Which version of the program are you using?
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Old 01-19-2011, 05:54 AM   #148
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BobW - I have read all posts in regards to your app. Does it work with windows 7? The reason I ask is because after I install I get this error message when trying to start the app.



Your reply would be appreciated. Thanks Gary
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Old 01-19-2011, 06:14 AM   #149
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Sandsurfer,

It runs on fine on Windows 7. At least I haven't had any problems.

It looks like the database software did not get installed. Did you go through the full install process? The are a number of microsoft programs that must be downloaded and installed for the program to work. The installer will do this automatically but I believe it asks permission first. If you decline then the program will not work.

Suggest uninstall/reinstall and see what happens.
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Old 01-20-2011, 08:52 PM   #150
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Sandsurfer,
Are you running on 64-bit Win7? I am on 64-bit Vista and have the same error.
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