"Ask" Jilles Groskamp Tamiya 416 & 417, Team Orion Motors
08-30-2011, 03:09 AM
#1697
front traction
hi jilles..
hope you can help me out!
I race a trf416we 13.5 with boost with the following setup at JP Raceway (i believe you have tried running here before)
I have too much steering for the first 3-5 laps and then it goes away and settles down (which i like) what can cause this? i did not change anything for 5 batts to make sure i wasnt only imagining it. but its still there. does having less toe-in in the rear better for stock with boost?
what settings should i try?
Here's my setup:
I also built a front diff with blue tack putty... very tight but i can still rotate using tires. this is mainly so i can take better care of the transmission. what adjustments should i take?
hope you can help me out!
I race a trf416we 13.5 with boost with the following setup at JP Raceway (i believe you have tried running here before)
I have too much steering for the first 3-5 laps and then it goes away and settles down (which i like) what can cause this? i did not change anything for 5 batts to make sure i wasnt only imagining it. but its still there. does having less toe-in in the rear better for stock with boost?
what settings should i try?
Here's my setup:
I also built a front diff with blue tack putty... very tight but i can still rotate using tires. this is mainly so i can take better care of the transmission. what adjustments should i take?
09-02-2011, 05:39 PM
#1698
I run a 416x with a Speed Passion 21.5 Citrix Club Spec set-up on asphalt. Of course all car's are closely match speed wise so it all come's down to set-up.
I found a good set-up for my low grip flowing track, but was wondering what changes should I be considering with the car as the grip comes up.
I'm not certain of area's in which to focus on. Is it roll center, springs, shock oil weight.
Some suggestions on what to consider would be appreciated.
I found a good set-up for my low grip flowing track, but was wondering what changes should I be considering with the car as the grip comes up.
I'm not certain of area's in which to focus on. Is it roll center, springs, shock oil weight.
Some suggestions on what to consider would be appreciated.
09-04-2011, 07:54 AM
#1700
Here's a quick one for you guys:
What is the best Tamiya body to run in Sedan or GT1??
Was going to run B4 but it is discontinued!
Regards
What is the best Tamiya body to run in Sedan or GT1??
Was going to run B4 but it is discontinued!
Regards
09-04-2011, 02:28 PM
#1702
It is supposed to be discontinued also!!!
09-04-2011, 02:34 PM
#1703
Hmmmmmmmm weird as i just recieved one last friday and there is a second one on it's way to me
Check http://cgi.ebay.nl/Tamiya-53824-RC-B...item4aae2156c2
And http://cgi.ebay.nl/Tamiya-53824-RC-B...item35b4dfa2e1
regards Roy
Check http://cgi.ebay.nl/Tamiya-53824-RC-B...item4aae2156c2
And http://cgi.ebay.nl/Tamiya-53824-RC-B...item35b4dfa2e1
regards Roy
09-04-2011, 07:25 PM
#1704
First of all my excuses for not being around so long time. Busy times with Euros and moving back to Thailand again! Anyway, I'm back in Asia and more motivated then ever.
Hi Ed, Did you try the bigger pinion? I think this is better if the motor rev out too much. In my opinion the bigger gear also makes it smoother in the infield.
With the 417 I have find a good set-up by using 0mm FF and 0.5mm FR to make 0.5mm antidive. With 0.5FF and 1.0mm FR the car gets more lazy and has not enough steering. Some track both FF and FR without spacers is worth a try, same as WC 2010 setup. Wheelbase change is changing the weight balance of the car. Most set-up now we use 3.5mm in the rear and 0.5mm in the front which brings the weight of the car more forward. This give better balance and more steering.
TRF417 will stay for a while as I'm sure we use this at WC 2012.
Normally I go to the track 4 or 5 day a week and be there most of the day. Sometimes prepare the car with little practise, sometimes run pack after pack but always make some small changes on the set-up. I never have played VRC as I think it not really match with the real thing, however for the beginner it can be a good practise tool.
With 1D or 1E in the front the car doesn't have enough steering, that's why we always use 1C with 0.5 wheel spacer.
Set-ups of teamdrivers will be soon on the Orion website.
The older software still had some small bugs, not sure what changed more.
If you want you can take off the case of the capacitor easily.
At this moment we no longer use a servo saver but only servo horn from Sanwa, the one who comes with the servo and cut to only one side
Sure for 2012 will have some new parts but the basic will stay as 417. We have been testing some new chassis tweaks with great results.
We only did this on the 416 as the topdeck was too low for the 25mm batteries.
Try to put the electronics as close to the middle as possible and move the batteries about 3mm from the belt and the car is nicely balanced. If not, add additional weight on the front right side and rear right side.
Run blue Tamiya spring front instead of white and go 10W softer in shock oil.
Glue the side wall of the tyre also helps a lot!
This sounds like a tyre/additive problem as you say after a few laps it settles down. Try different additive or different apply times. Like 30 min rear and 5 min front to avoid too much traction in the beginning of the race.
If you have too much steering I suggest using spool instead of geardiff. Geardiff is fast but more difficult to drive when it's high traction.
Usually the Tamiya car balance doesn't change much when the track condition change. For higher traction I suggest to use harder spring for better cornerspeed.
No, the snowbirds was one of the first races with the new car and I didn't tested the cut motor mount yet. I think on high grip the difference is very little. Sure next year I will test cut and original at the snowbirds!
Thanks Jilles,
I'll be giving the thick oil/soft spring a try next time I head to the outdoor track. Same for the speedo settings, I think I just got fully lost there! One final question, I've always aimed to get the motor to rev out on the longest straight. Where you say you like to gear a little bigger, do you look for this? or just go more for the smoothness on the infield?
Concentrating on the indoor track at RCI at the moment (Rick Wang's place), traction is similar to what I remember at RC City.. so it's great fun
I did try the cut deck there last weekend, for me it made the car quite bitey, would dig in inconsistently. Fastest laps were similar, but the average was down, so went back to the standard deck, and the car felt good again. Just need to find that thumb transplant hop-up...
Cheers
Ed
I'll be giving the thick oil/soft spring a try next time I head to the outdoor track. Same for the speedo settings, I think I just got fully lost there! One final question, I've always aimed to get the motor to rev out on the longest straight. Where you say you like to gear a little bigger, do you look for this? or just go more for the smoothness on the infield?
Concentrating on the indoor track at RCI at the moment (Rick Wang's place), traction is similar to what I remember at RC City.. so it's great fun
I did try the cut deck there last weekend, for me it made the car quite bitey, would dig in inconsistently. Fastest laps were similar, but the average was down, so went back to the standard deck, and the car felt good again. Just need to find that thumb transplant hop-up...
Cheers
Ed
Hello Jilles,
Thanks again for being here to answer questions on behalf of Tamiya...
I'm wondering about the front suspension mount spacers. I see in most of your setup sheets for high bite you run the front suspension blocks without any spacer under them. Kit setup is to put 0.5 under F/F and F/R with 0.5mm of antidive.
Lately I have been running 0.5mm F/F and 1.0mm F/R with split blocks to get 0.5mm anti dive and this is on high grip asphalt indoor.
Could you explain which situations you would want to run the mounts on the chassis and when you would want to run the 0.5mm under the mounts? What type of grip level and how is steering feel affected? Does this change to the front and not to the rear upset the overall balance of 417? I don't mean the use of anti-dive thogh...I personally like to run antidive on our track for stability, due to braking into some turns.
Secondly, can you explain what tuning the wheelbase will do? Say if I shorten or lengthen the front only, or rear only, or both what conditions would I want to utilize the different wheel bases?
Thanks again
Brett
Thanks again for being here to answer questions on behalf of Tamiya...
I'm wondering about the front suspension mount spacers. I see in most of your setup sheets for high bite you run the front suspension blocks without any spacer under them. Kit setup is to put 0.5 under F/F and F/R with 0.5mm of antidive.
Lately I have been running 0.5mm F/F and 1.0mm F/R with split blocks to get 0.5mm anti dive and this is on high grip asphalt indoor.
Could you explain which situations you would want to run the mounts on the chassis and when you would want to run the 0.5mm under the mounts? What type of grip level and how is steering feel affected? Does this change to the front and not to the rear upset the overall balance of 417? I don't mean the use of anti-dive thogh...I personally like to run antidive on our track for stability, due to braking into some turns.
Secondly, can you explain what tuning the wheelbase will do? Say if I shorten or lengthen the front only, or rear only, or both what conditions would I want to utilize the different wheel bases?
Thanks again
Brett
Hi Jilles.
Really nice to read your coments and tips. Go on with that.
I see, that you nearly allways use 1C/1C blocks with spacers at the wheels in the front. Have you tried 1D/1D or even 1E/1E blocks and then no spacers instead? Allmost the same wide...
Look forward to see you at the Euros in Austria.
Bjarne - Denmark
Really nice to read your coments and tips. Go on with that.
I see, that you nearly allways use 1C/1C blocks with spacers at the wheels in the front. Have you tried 1D/1D or even 1E/1E blocks and then no spacers instead? Allmost the same wide...
Look forward to see you at the Euros in Austria.
Bjarne - Denmark
Dragging the thread back from PAGE 5 OUCH
With the Team Orion speedies hitting the shelves, are there any suggested setups from your recent travels.
I see that the software has a new version number, any significant changes from the older software?
The ESC itself looks AWESOME, but whoever thought up the new switch and capacitor shrouds needs a good hard look in the mirror. They are HUGE
With the Team Orion speedies hitting the shelves, are there any suggested setups from your recent travels.
I see that the software has a new version number, any significant changes from the older software?
The ESC itself looks AWESOME, but whoever thought up the new switch and capacitor shrouds needs a good hard look in the mirror. They are HUGE
The older software still had some small bugs, not sure what changed more.
If you want you can take off the case of the capacitor easily.
At this moment we no longer use a servo saver but only servo horn from Sanwa, the one who comes with the servo and cut to only one side
Glue the side wall of the tyre also helps a lot!
hi jilles..
hope you can help me out!
I race a trf416we 13.5 with boost with the following setup at JP Raceway (i believe you have tried running here before)
I have too much steering for the first 3-5 laps and then it goes away and settles down (which i like) what can cause this? i did not change anything for 5 batts to make sure i wasnt only imagining it. but its still there. does having less toe-in in the rear better for stock with boost?
what settings should i try?
Here's my setup:
I also built a front diff with blue tack putty... very tight but i can still rotate using tires. this is mainly so i can take better care of the transmission. what adjustments should i take?
hope you can help me out!
I race a trf416we 13.5 with boost with the following setup at JP Raceway (i believe you have tried running here before)
I have too much steering for the first 3-5 laps and then it goes away and settles down (which i like) what can cause this? i did not change anything for 5 batts to make sure i wasnt only imagining it. but its still there. does having less toe-in in the rear better for stock with boost?
what settings should i try?
Here's my setup:
I also built a front diff with blue tack putty... very tight but i can still rotate using tires. this is mainly so i can take better care of the transmission. what adjustments should i take?
If you have too much steering I suggest using spool instead of geardiff. Geardiff is fast but more difficult to drive when it's high traction.
I run a 416x with a Speed Passion 21.5 Citrix Club Spec set-up on asphalt. Of course all car's are closely match speed wise so it all come's down to set-up.
I found a good set-up for my low grip flowing track, but was wondering what changes should I be considering with the car as the grip comes up.
I'm not certain of area's in which to focus on. Is it roll center, springs, shock oil weight.
Some suggestions on what to consider would be appreciated.
I found a good set-up for my low grip flowing track, but was wondering what changes should I be considering with the car as the grip comes up.
I'm not certain of area's in which to focus on. Is it roll center, springs, shock oil weight.
Some suggestions on what to consider would be appreciated.
No, the snowbirds was one of the first races with the new car and I didn't tested the cut motor mount yet. I think on high grip the difference is very little. Sure next year I will test cut and original at the snowbirds!
09-04-2011, 07:54 PM
#1705
thank you for the rpely Jilles! will test this soon.. when i played with setup after running yesterday (more steering) the compound effect is less obvious. i also tried the putty diff which i like i feel not so much difference with a spool but this will have to be tested back to back.
last question,
how often do you replace the internal gears in your gear diff V2?
my first one slipped after 5 batts (maybe breaking it in in the bench is not a good idea). i bought another one and put 0.1 shim in addition to the shim supplied in the kit. hopefully it will last longer
More power jilles!
last question,
how often do you replace the internal gears in your gear diff V2?
my first one slipped after 5 batts (maybe breaking it in in the bench is not a good idea). i bought another one and put 0.1 shim in addition to the shim supplied in the kit. hopefully it will last longer
More power jilles!
09-04-2011, 09:40 PM
#1706
Yes tried the bigger pinions and backed the ESC settings down a lot... much smoother. Have now gone to a 5.5t (my throttle finger isn't yet smooth enough!), and that is smoother still, and just using turbo for the straight.
Also found that adding 10% drag brake has really helped to settle the car, and also seems to aid my braking stability as well
Have you heard any rumors about an ATS? Hearing things here myself, would be great if such a series was too happen
Regards
Ed
09-05-2011, 02:09 PM
#1709
Tech Adept
Tire traction
Hi Jilles,
Which are the tire traction compounds you use on new carpet? Are you still using the same ones as two years ago?
Is there an expiry date on tire traction compounds? Mine are two years old.. Would they still have the same effect, or should it be safer to use newer ones?
Thanks,
CRiXMAN
Which are the tire traction compounds you use on new carpet? Are you still using the same ones as two years ago?
Is there an expiry date on tire traction compounds? Mine are two years old.. Would they still have the same effect, or should it be safer to use newer ones?
Thanks,
CRiXMAN
09-06-2011, 04:45 AM
#1710
Tech Initiate
gear diff in front
Hello jilles,
when you use a gear diff in front, can you give me some advice, I think oil alone is too soft?! do you use a potty? if so, what?
thanks!
greeting daniel
when you use a gear diff in front, can you give me some advice, I think oil alone is too soft?! do you use a potty? if so, what?
thanks!
greeting daniel