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Old 11-30-2009, 10:44 AM   #406
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Maybe next year the Champs could be a one of the NEGS races? That would solve the 'what classes should be run' problem, keep the 'pros' out of the stock classes, help fix the tire questions for foam TC, and get more people to come who want to do well in the series. I remember back when the Champs was one of the Triple Crown series races.
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Old 11-30-2009, 10:57 AM   #407
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Maybe next year the Champs could be one of the NEGS races?
Highly unlikely. The NEGS was started to reduce the cost of racing (Friday - Sunday format), as well as to help out the local tracks that are hosting/running the events. The Champs race helps out the Champs race.
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Old 11-30-2009, 10:59 AM   #408
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Which race had more entries? The Halloween Classic or the US Indoor Champs?Last numbers I saw looked pretty close. Not too shabby for two big races in the same city less than a month apart. I wonder what the overlap in racers were?
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Old 11-30-2009, 11:00 AM   #409
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Maybe next year the Champs could be a one of the NEGS races?
And what ... spend Thanksgiving day with our families?
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Old 11-30-2009, 11:14 AM   #410
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Originally Posted by seaball View Post
quick question:

how did mod 12th manage to tq 3.5 laps faster than ss-12th, if the new speedo is a half second faster? .....
talk to me, here, folks. or did everyone sell out?
As mentioned 1cell did not affect them proportionetly. Previously mod could not use all the power available. Slow mod down does not mean slower lap times if they are now able to use al the power

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1/12 Scale Super Stock A Main:

So did everyone in the 1/12 scale 13.5 SS A Main run the Advance Blackdiamond? Those fast laps look pretty close to me.


And the Masters A Main:

1 ELI EZROW 10.181
2 WAYNE GERBER 10.249
3 CHUCK LONERGAN 10.209
4 PHIL ZIMMERMAN 10.523
5 WAYNE VINCE 10.455
6 RANDY GROSSE 10.490
7 BRIAN WYNN 10.176
8 TERRY ROTT 10.445
9 JIM PIERSOL 10.441
10 FRANK CALANDRA 10.395

I know all of these guys were not running a Blackdiamond but not sure which ones were.
Can't speak for the classes I did not run but the masters A, I KNOW all but Gerber were runnin the BD and I think he was as well. In TC Stock the top 3 were using it and despite bouncing around 3rd still managed 3rd

As for the event itks self. This was my first Champs and I was not impressed. First the decision to allow a speedo with availability limited to the previliged or rich was BS and obviously favored the sponsor. The annoucing was mediocre with most wondering who was who, how much time was left etc. I think. The track was ok, considering it is a temporary track it was acceptable but in general if I had to choose I'd rather go to the Halloween Classic, the Gate crew is awesome
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Old 11-30-2009, 11:36 AM   #411
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the negs series makes the most sense its a great series, lots of fun,and the classes they offer are great if more tracks followed their guidelines i think most people would be happy.
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Old 11-30-2009, 02:39 PM   #412
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The top 3 qualifiers in TC stock did not run the advanced. McBride qualified 3rd and was running the Tekin. As was I (qualified 5th) the other 3 guys in the top 5 were running the advanced speedo.

The advanced speedo guys finished 1st, 2nd, 3rd.

That speedo was extremely fast! You could see in practice and then qualifying exactly what race they put it in the car. Their fast laps went from 10.3 or 10.4 to 9.9 or 10.0.

It was / is ridiculous! I want one!


I had fun at the race because of the people, not because of the racing. The off-track antics were quite fun!

It WAS like a club race. Out of the 18 people in TC stock foam, I raced with 8 of them on a weekly basis. In the A main alone, I raced with 5 of the guys I race with every weekend.


Tech sucked at the race! They didn't know what heights or weights were for which class, the scale read differently every five minutes, they never discussed the VTA rules, etc...

The turn marshals they had for "volunteers" (there were a few racers running back to back, or not a complete heat of racers to marshall) were not racers, and made several errors costing people qualifiers, and even mains.

As far as suggestions, here goes:

1. Make people marshal after their race. It is the racer's responsibility to get a stand-in marshall. The stand-in MUST be a racer!

2. Make the rules clear! VTA was not supposed to run timing advance, but they didn't check for it. (Also: the speedo fiasco)

3. Make the track flat!

4. Shorten the race by one day.

5. Run less classes (get rid of masters, pick a touring car tire class, etc...)
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Old 11-30-2009, 02:53 PM   #413
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Was the ESC a factor at all in rubber sedan?

Also, was anybody testing the SXX Stock Spec?
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Old 11-30-2009, 03:20 PM   #414
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Was the ESC a factor at all in rubber sedan?
Yes. I know for a fact it was. I am not going to give names or anything, but some persons picked up alot of time because of the speedo.

However, the 13.5 rubber class was not a good race. There was a huge disparity in the performance of the cars and the drivers. I don't think anybody had a clean run all week.
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Old 11-30-2009, 04:56 PM   #415
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Was the ESC a factor at all in rubber sedan?

Also, was anybody testing the SXX Stock Spec?
For what it's worth, I HEARD there were prototype boards in some SXX cases.

And I second H-Robs opinion of Tech and Turn marshalls. I had to correct the tech a few times for using the wrong guages and as energetic as the young turnmarshalls were they left something to be desired, to their credit I have seen worse from racers occasionally but Staff seemed more intrigued with the "turn marshall for hire" concept than the quality of said coverage.
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Old 11-30-2009, 05:32 PM   #416
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If some peoples had bad time at Champs I had a great time. Thanks for all how make this race possible. This was my 11th year in row and looking to race there again.

We got tons of practice and extra round of qualifying this year because low turnout so thanks for those folks how decided to stay home. The track was much better that it been in years. At least 1/12th scale competition was as tight as usual. And all this you get by taking one day off from work!

Looking forward for next year all ready….
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Old 11-30-2009, 05:32 PM   #417
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I've been to the champs every year since 2001.

While I still had fun it seemed like a club race... Not like it did even just last year.

A lot has to do with no teams sending sponsored drivers this year which adds to the race. Too many classes and not very many in each class.

Masters have proved they can run with the fastest so ditch masters and run everyone in stock that would be a good 8 heats of stock 12th. 13.5 crowd was good and so was mod.

Bottom line 12th scale showed up as always just a lot of people switched to masters this year instead of stock.

Touring car fell off is what happened to the entries. Touring car guys don't show up at the champs any more. Even the local people or the closer guys don't show up from OH and MI. They have there reasons...

Economy is hurting, but this race does not appeal to racers looking for more than just a race. Like its been said before this is just a race nothing to do like florida or vegas.

The classic has gained popularity and the champs has dropped. Part of that is the difference in a 3 day race and a 5 day race.

Another part is its thanksgiving and now that I'm married the wife wasn't happy that I went so I get where people are coming from.

The track was better this year except for the one bump going onto the straight.

Tech is still a joke one guy couldn't even figure out how to work the volt meter. Another couldn't figure out the scales...


My suggestions:

Limit the classes

12th stock (put masters back in stock), superstock, mod
Pick one class for WGT probably 13.5
Touring maybe one rubber and one foam class I dunno entries were too bad to tell the trend this year.

Go to a 4 day race so we don't have to take extra days off work.

Talk to Chicky about working it in the series next year and conform to their classes if need be whatever it takes.

The race doesn't have to die, but if changes aren't made it will.

I love 12th scales and I love this race for that reason I hope it stays around for a very long time.
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Old 11-30-2009, 05:54 PM   #418
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seems like the low turnout for this year's champs could possibly be related to the growing popularity of the NEGS series. One gets to run against the same type of quality competition at the NEGS series races and yet those NEGS trips are substantially less costly since the series races are a day or two shorter. These days lots of people need to watch their budgets more closely than ever, so it's perhaps not a huge surprise that racers who are forced by the economy make their choices...... choose to attend the cheaper outings where many of the same talented drivers and a similar level of competition can be found.

about the black diamond.....I think that people are being a little unfair to CRC by criticizing them for finding and for bringing to market this clearly superior product. If you think that CRC is being greedy somehow or is guilty of some sort of wrong doing, please think again. When was the last time that any other company released a new and improved car kit and the price of their new kit actually went down? What were CRC to do when their worldwide connections led them to discover this most recent performance improvement? Ignore it? Not use it? Obviously, that's rediculous. As racers to their very core, of course CRC would embrace any new componentry that's so clearly superior to previously available bits and pieces. Eventually it's likely that the price will come down some as Advanced ramps up their production capability and the distribution channel is developed further. Does anybody suggest that we should ban the new Xray T3 sedan chassis from competition on the basis of it's extreme $550 price tag? That too would be rediculous. It's a "luxury touring car" that many are willing to pay a luxury price for. Likewise, the Black Diamond is a "luxury speedo" that many have been willing to pay for. For those that are not, please keep one eye on your mirrors as you exit the corners because there's likely to be a black diamond equipped car bearing down on you. This is what's known as racing. Nobody ever promised us that it was gonna be cheap. But it sure is fun!
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Old 11-30-2009, 05:57 PM   #419
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seems like the low turnout for this year's champs could possibly be related to the growing popularity of the NEGS series. One gets to run against the same type of quality competition at the NEGS series races and yet those NEGS trips are substantially less costly since the series races are a day or two shorter. These days lots of people need to watch their budgets more closely than ever, so it's perhaps not a huge surprise that racers who are forced by the economy make their choices...... choose to attend the cheaper outings where many of the same talented drivers and a similar level of competition can be found.

about the black diamond.....I think that people are being a little unfair to CRC by criticizing them for finding and for bringing to market this clearly superior product. If you think that CRC is being greedy somehow or is guilty of some sort of wrong doing, please think again. When was the last time that any other company released a new and improved car kit and the price of their new kit actually went down? What were CRC to do when their worldwide connections led them to discover this most recent performance improvement? Ignore it? Not use it? Obviously, that's rediculous. As racers to their very core, of course CRC would embrace any new componentry that's so clearly superior to previously available bits and pieces. Eventually it's likely that the price will come down some as Advanced ramps up their production capability and the distribution channel is developed further. Does anybody suggest that we should ban the new Xray T3 sedan chassis from competition on the basis of it's extreme $550 price tag? That too would be rediculous. It's a "luxury touring car" that many are willing to pay a luxury price for. Likewise, the Black Diamond is a "luxury speedo" that many have been willing to pay for. For those that are not, please keep one eye on your mirrors as you exit the corners because there's likely to be a black diamond equipped car bearing down on you. This is what's known as racing. Nobody ever promised us that it was gonna be cheap. But it sure is fun!
The thing about the T3 is it probably doesn't get you the increase in performance over your previous car that the BD gets you over your previous ESC. So if you look at it that way its a steal compared to a new T3.
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Old 11-30-2009, 06:36 PM   #420
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Does anybody suggest that we should ban the new Xray T3 sedan chassis from competition on the basis of it's extreme $550 price tag?
This might also be a part of the low turnout. $550 cars and $350 escs during an economic downturn. Sure you don't have to buy it but it's an overall trend. I'm not complaining, you pays your money and takes your choice, but it's hard out there.
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