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Old 12-17-2003, 07:15 PM   #121
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HeY!!!


Hey i have also been droppin like 2-3 teeth it kinda depends on the track i think. I know someone that said they only had to drop 1 tooth and they have just as much power as i would by droping 2-3 teeth, but he's awesome at tuning motors so yeah.
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Old 12-17-2003, 07:21 PM   #122
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Post gearing info.

Brian, Gary

Thanks, that info is what I was looking for

JC

OT - Gary, will you be running GT2 in 04?
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Old 12-18-2003, 12:59 AM   #123
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John, for regionals or Nationals?

Regionals will be GT3 and either Mini or F201. Depends on which car sucks less. I may do GT2 as well. I'm not giving up on the SS yet. Besides, I can't afford to get a TB-02, and I can't run my XXX-S at TCS races) Well, I can afford the 02, but not throwing 3/4ths of it away and replacing those parts with shiny aluminium ones
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Old 12-18-2003, 08:11 AM   #124
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Quote:
Originally posted by DerekB
Why do we all assume that people don't know how to drive? When I started racing I was pretty comfortable behind the wheel. After Driving my Falcon, Big Brute, and other cars at the 540 speed I bought a faster motor and from driving around the street I knew how to drive. When I got to the track I ran stock with my red 1200s. Not soon after I wanted to go faster wround the track and I bought a mod motor at the time 17-turn was "hot" I raced that (still with no problems).

I didn't like stock anymore because of the slowe speed and having to have a motor that was good. At that point it wasn't my driving it was the motor. Now we hve better batteries better cars better ESC, better charges and yet we still use the same technology? With BUSHINGS? how about we get some bearings at least in stock motors. The cost shouldn't change, and since bearings are in $20 motors.

So as each stock motor comes out the first thing you ask is how fast is it. Why don't we ask how slow it is? the reason why most of us race is to go fast. I don't watch electric golf carts race at 10mph, I watch F1 at 190mph, because of the speed. We have a SPEED Channel, not a I want to go slow so some body doesn't crash channel.

Speed is an evoloutionary process, back when we ran 1200s we had to worry about dumping, that's the main reason why stock isn't a diferent motor. If you are worried about cost, then a SPEC class is what you need, but I can say that if there was a choice I think ore people will take the faster 19-turn (hopefully with bearings) class. But I guess we'll all complain that a stock motor (which in all respects is still stock except for a 2mm gap in magnets) which may or maynot be faster should be illegal, despite all of us asking if it's faster, when there is a cheaper way to go faster...hell why brushless isn't legal is baffeling to me too.

And fast cars is NOT a reason for low turnouts at races. If it were we'd be drving 380 motors again. What we need is a more organized nationwide system to allow beginners a place to learn and moveup over time...where's that rcnation link?
You got nothin' but respect from me Derek, but I think the California environment has skewed your perspective a bit . You now live in the land of the "GIANT RACETRACKS" and the RC population your way is flooded with some of the most talented drivers in the world. Now come to the Midwest and watch a Stock Touring C qualifier at any club track and your wish for a faster stock motor formula will quickly dissipate. The carnage an improperly prepared dog of an MVP can create is reason enough to leave stock motor rules alone, much less a hack driver with a dyno and a bunch of time on his hands.

I too started racing WAY BACK WHEN, and when stock got too slow I bought a 15 turn for my SEVEN-CELL Cat XLS. The thing is, with the motor and battery technology that was available then, a 7-cell 15 turn off- road buggy was maybe, almost as fast as a stock class buggy on 5 cells today. Hell, Stock today is as fast as Mod was FIVE years ago.

Stock Motors are fast enough. If you want fast run Mod. Close competitive, speed limited racing is what stock is all about. Just like in real motorsports. Stock Cars are slow, the "less restrictive" formulas are fast.
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Last edited by CypressMidWest; 12-18-2003 at 08:22 AM.
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Old 12-18-2003, 08:50 AM   #125
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I bought one BS motor. So far, I cannot find any way to get as much power out of it as I can out of a MS motor. I am testing with a Robi dyno at 7.5 volts. The BS motor is 5-10 watts weaker at every AMP step from 20-45. It has more RPM, but lacks power. I've tried every trick I know, and these tricks always work on a MS motor. Is there something different I need to try for the BS, or is the BS motor I bought just a dud?
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Old 12-18-2003, 11:10 AM   #126
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You might have a dud. What kinds of brushes and spring combos did you use?
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Old 12-18-2003, 01:18 PM   #127
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Quote:
Originally posted by Shiloh
I bought one BS motor. So far, I cannot find any way to get as much power out of it as I can out of a MS motor. I am testing with a Robi dyno at 7.5 volts. The BS motor is 5-10 watts weaker at every AMP step from 20-45. It has more RPM, but lacks power. I've tried every trick I know, and these tricks always work on a MS motor. Is there something different I need to try for the BS, or is the BS motor I bought just a dud?
You do realize of course, that a dyno is not a racetrack, right? Many motors that look crappy on Dynos run STRONG on the track. It's all about power band and gear.

Binaries do not always respond to the same tips and tweaks as Monsters do, as many others on the site have stated. It's sort of Old School that way. Back in the good old days there were many different brush/spring combos for the same type of stock motor. Now we're spoiled!! Almost all MONSTERS respond to the same kinda treatment, Binaries are more unique from motor to motor, Like Slot Machines, and Slot II'S. Ahhhh the good old days.
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Old 12-18-2003, 01:25 PM   #128
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Quote:
Originally posted by CypressMidWest
You got nothin' but respect from me Derek, but I think the California environment has skewed your perspective a bit . You now live in the land of the "GIANT RACETRACKS" and the RC population your way is flooded with some of the most talented drivers in the world. Now come to the Midwest and watch a Stock Touring C qualifier at any club track and your wish for a faster stock motor formula will quickly dissipate. The carnage an improperly prepared dog of an MVP can create is reason enough to leave stock motor rules alone, much less a hack driver with a dyno and a bunch of time on his hands.

I too started racing WAY BACK WHEN, and when stock got too slow I bought a 15 turn for my SEVEN-CELL Cat XLS. The thing is, with the motor and battery technology that was available then, a 7-cell 15 turn off- road buggy was maybe, almost as fast as a stock class buggy on 5 cells today. Hell, Stock today is as fast as Mod was FIVE years ago.

Stock Motors are fast enough. If you want fast run Mod. Close competitive, speed limited racing is what stock is all about. Just like in real motorsports. Stock Cars are slow, the "less restrictive" formulas are fast.
That's fair to assume, but I'm from the NE and I know what most small tracks are, and I wouldn't consider SoCal big. I just think a 19-turn would be good. To jump from stock to mod is way hard for most people. I do remember stock being good enough for RC Madness, but the little extra from 19-turn is great. Breaking the cars will help since maybe some manufacturers will go back to cars that don't break as easy (doh). I just think it's time for a change. You have beginners have a slower class. Hell that new brushless stock motor is looking good.
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Old 12-18-2003, 01:34 PM   #129
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I think a Brushless SPEC class would be excellent. Maybe a speed control, with a plug in chip, like LRP's old current limiters, that regulates power output, that could be easily teched. That'd be pretty cool.
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Old 12-18-2003, 01:37 PM   #130
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Quote:
Originally posted by CypressMidWest
I think a Brushless SPEC class would be excellent. Maybe a speed control, with a plug in chip, like LRP's old current limiters, that regulates power output, that could be easily teched. That'd be pretty cool.
I just have trouble buying that a limiter would equalize power.
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Old 12-18-2003, 07:08 PM   #131
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I played around with that BS motor more today. The magnets were really weak. The motor was a "pro" motor, which means nothing but claims the can is zapped, the arm balanced, and so on. The arm is clearly not balanced and the can was clearly not zapped. In fact, I suspect that the magnets were cut and placed in the can and the can had not be zapped since. Anytime magnets are removed from a can and/or cut, they must be rezapped. Anyway, I zapped the can using a Team 1 zapper. The motor jumped to life. It is now has as much power at every AMP step as any MS motor I have seen and it still has a lot more RPM.

If anybody else is struggling with the BS in a 6 cell application, I would strongly suggest getting the can rezapped. It would not suprise me if every one of these BS motors had weak magnets.

Last edited by Shiloh; 12-18-2003 at 08:10 PM.
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Old 12-18-2003, 07:37 PM   #132
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Quote:
Originally posted by nashrcracer
... just to add fuel to the fire we have a 19t class at one of the tracks I run at. the top three or 4 guys figured out how to run 40 to 44 degress of timing and put laydown brushes on the standup endbells. the motor smokes some mod winds and will shut off a turbo35 at 2 volts. but defeats the purpose of the class. something that doesn't allow you to hit the wall like a 8 double. and everybody has to run the same thing....
hey nash ... would you be so kind enough to tell us on how they did that with a 19turn motor... and what kind of motor were they using?
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Old 12-18-2003, 08:44 PM   #133
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I just got my new Binary stock the Rpm read 22,420 something, what numbers have you guys been getting? I Don't have the motor in front me?
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Old 12-18-2003, 09:17 PM   #134
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Quote:
Originally posted by yodace
I just got my new Binary stock the Rpm read 22,420 something, what numbers have you guys been getting? I Don't have the motor in front me?
I picked up a BS (lol) today and the sticker reads 23071. This was the only one in the 23's that I saw out of the lot. I'm gonna try and run it this weekend in Stockton, CA if they let me. I currently run at SpeedWorld and have been using a final ratio of 7.3 or so on my EVO III SE using a Monster stock. I'll probably run it with the same ratio in practice and then move down a tooth or so. After reading all of the pages to this point, I think it's safe to assume that we just haven't found the right tuning aspect's to this motor yet. I'm really eager to see what all the hype is about though
I've used nothing but the Monster's since I started 6 months ago so I don't have anything else to compare them to but the Monster's. So . . . . . . , I'll just drive and see how it turns out!
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Old 12-18-2003, 09:34 PM   #135
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hierog,

Just for your benefit, drop 2 teeth from your monster if you're running 48P, 4 teeth if 64P. This motor likes to be geared LOW...especially with RPM like that. Just trust me on the gearing.
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