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Old 01-01-2004, 05:56 AM   #181
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First of all, I must say.... Thank's Tempest2000 for the wonderfuly skillfull ascii art and explination of it... You've given me personaly a whole new perspective on this whole discssusion


I think I follow your logic and basicly accept that your correct...

But... don't magnets have ANY side to side polariity? I mean side to side, if you assume magnets in these motors are mainly in to out... Given that the magnets aren't really flat, does that make any differance?

I'd never given it that much thought, and my education in magnetic principles is elementry... (from elementry school to be exact)... Actualy I probaly had a reffersher course in college, but never really study magnets really....


One thing that I do not think is in any doubt... you can indeed zap EPIC motors with a normal magnet zapper... That only leaves the Reedys in any question.... and I really have almost zero doubt that those too can be zapped with a typical zapper(although maybe it needs to be supper strong to do any good)

Our quad better then yours? Well... I'm not even sure anyones quad is any better then anyone elses 2 magnet.... so one quad better then another is almost meaningless to me at this point.

Thanks again Tempest for your post, I found it enlightening.
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Old 01-01-2004, 08:39 AM   #182
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I have a pictuce of the way the reedy motor is and the way I believe any motor will only work. If some one can post it for me email me.

Thanks,
Paul

Last edited by chicky03; 01-01-2004 at 08:45 AM.
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Old 01-01-2004, 08:53 AM   #183
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WOW, what alot of drama, I dont know the scientific terms but I do know that I zapped about 50 binary motors in cleveland and I would like to think I can build a half way decent motor, bottom line is after I zapped them they all improved and I zapped it like a regular two magnet motor. I havent zapped any of the new reedy motors but at the same time the magnets are strong enough anyway so I dont think they need it. just my .02 cents.
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Old 01-01-2004, 04:21 PM   #184
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Paul, send me your picture, I'll post it.
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Old 01-01-2004, 05:04 PM   #185
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Dynomohum... thanks... it did take awhile since the formatting is messed up and only allows one space between characters LOL

There is no side to side polarity (north/south) in our applications...

During zapping, you are basically aligning the atoms, particles, or whatever you want to call them, inside the magnets to align in one direction i.e north to south or south to north however you want to think of it.

In order for the sides to have a north/south you'd have to zap them the other way... like from narrow end to the other narrow end of the magnet. This would have to be done out of the can and it would also ruin the magnets for our application since the field would not be directly North or South either one creating a magnetic field for the armature to operate in...

BTW Dynomohum... if you think about the way the particles align as I stated above... the curvature would not effect the north south alignment within the magnets... the magnets are curved only to provide equal distance i.e. airgap all the way around the armature instead of having a flat magnet or magnets that that would have varying distances (airgap) between the magnets and the arm.

Hope that helps some...
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Old 01-02-2004, 07:44 AM   #186
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Here's Paul's drawing...



For what it's worth... I suspect as Paul and ohters have previously stated... I beleive this is the Only way the motor will work...


I still am intrigued as to how the EPIC has ratcheting and the Reedy doesn't... but I think I now fully accept that it's not likely due to magnet polarity issues... Along the same lines, I wonder if there is any advantage or disadvantage to the racheting or lack there of... Does the motor spin any longer when there is no power applied and there is no racheting? If so, is that of any value to a racer?
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Old 01-02-2004, 08:40 AM   #187
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There are a lot of factors in the "cog" or "ratcheting" of a motor. One can be the space that is between the magnets. A bigger space will have a different effect on the cog. Also lamination material can make the cog feel different. You could take a epic arm and put it into a Reedy can and see what happens. It may or may not change. The space between the magnets/airgap can be another factor. The design of the arm weather it be the web or crown can also make a difference in the way a motor feels. Although I do not think R/C magnets are oriented in any special way they can be cut certain ways to effect how the motor will perform and also have a different cog.

Paul

Last edited by chicky03; 01-02-2004 at 08:45 AM.
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Old 01-02-2004, 12:51 PM   #188
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If anybody is interested in a magnet zapper, I am selling one in the for sale thread.http://www.rctech.net/forum/showthre...threadid=29944
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Old 01-04-2004, 01:19 AM   #189
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Paul... you are right... the "cog" effect is just as you said... dependent on several factors i.e. air gap, gap between magnets, etc..
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Old 01-04-2004, 10:40 AM   #190
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ive ordered two of these motors and am now worried about the performance of them [lack of] that other people have stated here.
i use a mvp which is really well tuned and can beat all monsters easy but i ordered these motors for more power but it seems that they havent got much?
are they really any slower then a ms?
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Old 01-04-2004, 10:46 AM   #191
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Depends on the track layout, gearing and driving style. At our track, Trackside in Milwaukee, the Binary is the fastest right now. You have to gear by lap times. Once you find the right gear they are fast. It seems like if you have to stop or slow to avoid something they take a while to get back up to speed but if your smooth and carry good corner speed they cant be beat.
If you cant run 5 mins clean and your setups arnt good you will do better with one of the torqier motors.. monster, mvp, p2k2, core, etc.

Last edited by ottoman; 01-04-2004 at 10:53 AM.
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Old 01-04-2004, 10:48 AM   #192
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Quote:
Originally posted by ottoman
Depends on the track layout, gearing and driving style. At our track, Trackside in Milwaukee, the Binary is the fastest right now. You have to gear by lap times. Once you find the right gear they are fast. It seems like if you have to stop or slow to avoid something they take a while to get back up to speed but if your smooth and carry good corner speed they cant be beat.
thats reasured me a bit.
so if i use a 33tooth pinion 64dp i will have to go down to about 29?for a tight low grip track.
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Old 01-04-2004, 10:58 AM   #193
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right now most run about a 2 to 3 teeth smaller pinion (64 pitch)than a Monster.. I cant remember how I geared my MVP so I cant help you there. Right now indoors on carpet we run between .91 to .95 rollout depending on the track layout.
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Old 01-04-2004, 12:48 PM   #194
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Well, that sounds about like what I experienced last night at my local track(first time to try the Binary in my car). It is a bit soft at very low rpm, but it seems to more than make up for it by the time it tops out, so if you gear it right it can be faster than the Monster(& that's the impression I had of it from the dyno testing I did on my Robi before I put it in the car). And next weekend I'll be up in Milwaukee for the Novak race, so I'll be using it a LOT more....
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Old 01-09-2004, 01:27 PM   #195
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tried a Binary Stk arm in the Monster can and it was even faster in my TC3

the BS arm has the stacks moved in and 2-4 lams missing off the stacks compared to the MS arm
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