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Old 12-31-2003, 11:17 AM   #166
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Alright, after reading through a couple of the threads over there, I found the answer, and I'll quote it so we know who's name send the duds to just in case!

Quote:
Bill Rondeau- You zap them just like any 2 mag motor.....
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Old 12-31-2003, 11:18 AM   #167
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I have heard of people saying the motors had a + and - on each side but that is not true. The motor will not run that way. One side has to be all + and the other -.

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Old 12-31-2003, 11:29 AM   #168
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The quad mag cans are set up with pos on one side and neg on the other, just like a two mag can. You zap the quad just like a standard can. There is absolutely no reason to use a quad pole zapper. In fact, the motor would not run correctly if you did use a quad pole zapper. The only thing that you need to worry about is whether or not the zapper wraps far enough around the can. The Team 1 zapper definitely works. It's arms are 32mm wide, and that is plenty for the BS can. If you have an older zapper with arms that are only 25mm wide, you may be out of luck.
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Old 12-31-2003, 12:49 PM   #169
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chicky,

Actually the epic motor and the reedy motor are a little different. The reedy are |- +| |+ -| or one side and |+ -| |- +| on the other, and the epics are |- +| |- +| on one side and |+ -| |+ -| on the other....
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Old 12-31-2003, 01:24 PM   #170
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Greg,

I never to claim to know everything and I never actually checked but I do know quite a bit about magnets from slotcars. I just checked a PT with my gauss meter and on one side the magnets were both + and on the other side both magnets were both -.

In slotcars when we have quad magnet motors, to assemble them we stick a - and + together so they are easier to glue in. If we do not rezap the can and magnets the motor will not run. It will just sit there and hum. Also there is no zapper that I know of that when putting a +and - on one side and then zap them they stay + and - on that same side. Both magnets will always become + and the other side will become -. If the R/C guys would make no gap in the magnets and stick the + and - together then rezap I believe they would have a much better more efficient motor. I will have to test it but I think the way it is setup now, there is actually a weaker magnetic field. Hence the higher RPM.

I hope I explained this so everyone can understand. I may have worded it a little confusing.

See you in a few days Greg.

Paul
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Old 12-31-2003, 01:26 PM   #171
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Chicky, you can zap the Epic motors with the Trinity zapper, and the T1 zapper, but you can not zap the Reedy ones...

see you Wed?
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Old 12-31-2003, 01:36 PM   #172
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I talked to Sean and he said they tried to zap the Kr, PT or Ti and they would not zap because the zappers people use are not strong enough to bump them up. He said you need an industrial type zapper to get them fully saturated and even then he said there is not a significant gain. The magnets when they are new are pretty much as strong as they get. That is why you will see a gain on the trinity magnets and no gain on the reedy magnets.

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Old 12-31-2003, 02:46 PM   #173
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try zapping a Ti can, or ones from a MVP or a Core stock... interesting results indeed
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Old 12-31-2003, 03:52 PM   #174
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What did you find happened?

On some slotcar magnets when you zap them it actually makes them weaker. Is this what you found?

Anyway getting back to the orginal topic in my opinion the magnets have to be the same on both sides.

Paul
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Old 12-31-2003, 04:44 PM   #175
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I zapped mine (BS) with my Team One zapper... worked fine To be honest I never even thought about the quad mag thing before I zapped... I just got lucky I guess
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Old 12-31-2003, 05:41 PM   #176
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What I don't understand, and what makes me beleive that the Reedy and EPIC quad magnets are oriented differntly, is that the Reedy has no coging effect when you spin the arm, yet the EPICs have as much or more coging then do 2 maginet motors...

I've never really zapped any magnets of any motors myself, so I'm very inexperianced in this whole area...
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Old 12-31-2003, 06:37 PM   #177
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Quote:
Originally posted by DynoMoHum
What I don't understand, and what makes me beleive that the Reedy and EPIC quad magnets are oriented differntly, is that the Reedy has no coging effect when you spin the arm, yet the EPICs have as much or more coging then do 2 maginet motors...

I've never really zapped any magnets of any motors myself, so I'm very inexperianced in this whole area...
When reedy cuts the magnets they reinstall them as they came out of the motor making the poles on the cut magnets opposite each other. EPIC turns the pieces around so the magnets are basically acting like a two magnet motor
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Old 12-31-2003, 11:55 PM   #178
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Glenn: There is nothing different about the orientation of the poles. Look at the air gap between the magnets and the arm. The gap is the difference. The Reedy mags are simply C4 mag that are cut and then glued into the can. The Epic mags are cut, then the center of the mag is spun to the outside, and then they are glue back into the can. This reduces the air gap at the tips of the mag and increases it at the center. The Epic solutions leaves the cogging effect, so the quad mag can feels like a 2 mag can.
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Old 01-01-2004, 01:15 AM   #179
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I don't know, is it me or does it just seem like we have no consenuis as to how it really is?

The way Greg described it is the way Big Jim had always said it was. Others seem to still beleive that is the way it is...


If I understand Big Jim's perspective, it is such that he was directly involved with the prototyping, and presumably knowlegable about the way the Reedy is produced. Further more, I beleive he's stated that he had contact with Jim Deiter on how Trinity went about their's... However the last comment I had saw from Big Jim on this matter of magnet orinetation, was that you wouldn't be able to zap a motor effectively if you did it any other way then the way Reedy did it...

Anyway, it still seems to me, that the people here can't seem to agree how it really is... I hate when this happens... perticularly when there are several people whom I all know and respect their own individual knowlege a great deal...

I think maybe someone really does need to go see if we can get Jim Deiter to respond directly to the question of how the EPIC quads are... then perhaps we could get someone from the Reedy camp to do the same...

Another option might be to ask Todd Putnam, he's sort of a unbiased third party that should have pretty good knowlege of the operation of both motors...

Shiloh, I have heard the air gap magnet shape theory before, maybe that explains it all, I really have not looked all that closely at the shape and/or gap....

Greg, Exactly what does happen when you try to zap the magnets on a Modern Reedy motor?
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Old 01-01-2004, 02:17 AM   #180
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Please read everything before passing judgement LOL

For what its worth... a magnet being rotated around does absolutely nothing the way our magnets work in the motor application. A magnet does not work that way. Anyone who really knows anything about these magnets will tell you that the particles can be aligned either north to south or south to north from inside to outside or outside to inside respectively. Turning the magnet around has no effect on the north/south poles of the magnet. Hard to draw an example but...

opt. 1

S(N A S)N S = south N = North A = arm () = magnets in can

or

opt. 2

N(S A N)S opt. 2

as for quad mags the same applies... for both mags on each side... it's always one side (2 pair of magnets_) is north on the outside towards the can and the other side (2 pair of magnets) south inside facing the arm and the other side has to be south on the outside and north on the inside.

The one thing I'm not following on your examples Greg is are you talking |-+| |-+| being from outside to inside or left to right??? The magnets the way they work in the motor can only work from outside to inside and inside to outside not left to right.

Now if what Greg says is true (assuming he means from outside to inside...)... then you could NOT zap EITHER epics or reedy motors. Reason being any 2 pole magnet zapper including "industrial strength" versions only zap the two options I drew out above.


Now the only OTHER way to do it would be to zap the magnets before they are put in the can. All the following magnet arrangements could not be "rezapped" once the magnets are installed inside the can unless a specific zapper was made to zap them say diagonally 2 at a time for examples 2 and 4... 1 and 3 I'm not sure you could zap while in the can even with a zapper made to zap straight across the first two halves and the last two halves...

again sorry for the example quality...

N = North S = South

|
A = armature
|

{ = 1 of 2 magnets each side... (best I can do)
----- = spacer between the two magnets on each side


N{S | S}N
---- A ----
S{N | N}S

or

N{S | N}S
---- A ----
S{N | S}N

or

S{N | N}S
---- A ----
N{S | S}N

or

S{N | S}N
---- A ----
N{S | N}S

Now that everyone is confused and I'm tired LOL
Think about this...

Chad Phillips with Trinity was zapping the BS motors for people in Cleveland including vicky blackstock among others. I asked if a regular two mag zapper would work and he said it would work fine. Now... either Chad does not have a clue and he messed up even the A-main winning driver's motor (Vicky) or... the whole my quad mag motor setup is better than yours is just a scam.

I believe the latter...

$.02

Last edited by Tempest2000; 01-01-2004 at 02:32 AM.
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