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Old 12-02-2003, 10:23 PM   #421
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Ray... psst... it's just a coincidence.

Don't you mean, can't wait for the 2004 ROAR Carpet Nationals??

R/C Tech will be there!
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Old 12-03-2003, 04:33 AM   #422
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A 'small' note:

Controversy or not, the race is over, winner has been crowned. No protesting from our side, it is like it is. We will work even harder and just try to win with a good enough margin. David did run great in his first race with Peak V2 and Josh's 1/12th car! In Touring Car final not many saw it, but he came back from 10th to top 5 after 4.30 minutes.....

Congratulations to Jon Orr, Mike Blackstock and specially Vicky Blackstock. The sentence of the weekend by the fantastic job doing race speaker: Guys, you just have been beaten by a girl......

By this also a thank you to Atsushi Hara to show an incredible display of driving in Touring Car final, long time ago since I saw somebody racing that spectacular!

And a thank you to the Cleveland race organisers for again displaying an outstanding event!

Oscar Jansen
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Old 12-03-2003, 06:56 AM   #423
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Oscar: Do you happen to know if Hara ran the Team Orion Fresh Kicks foam tires? If so, what compounds and widths. Thanks.
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Old 12-03-2003, 07:14 AM   #424
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Quote:
Originally posted by Frank McKinney
That there's one reason why I don't think I've ever missed anything by not going to Cleveland...old equipment, single race mains and controversy every year.

I just watched the frame by frame video again - no matter where the finish line or loop is, David was ahead of John for at least 10-15 feet before the curved section of board (presumably where the checkered tape was).

People I know that were at the race saw video camera owners showing the race "officials" the tapes they'd JUST made and David was still not declared the winner. With this much of a huge controversy still 2 days after the race, there's no more "saving face" for the officials.

Lame!
I Uploaded it to my laptop within 5 minutes and showed Mr. Bill. I just wish that we could have stood at the line but they had it blocked off. If people want the whole video, e-mail me at [email protected] and I can try and get it to ya. The whole race is 183 megs and it was taken from my digital camera, not a camcorder. It is still good quality though. I will try and have my buddy put it up on his web server and i can e-mail links to people also.

Thanks

Tim
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Old 12-03-2003, 07:22 AM   #425
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I'm holding your car hostage till I get my copy hand delivered !
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Old 12-03-2003, 08:40 AM   #426
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mike Blackstock
CypressMidWest-great race calling all weekend. I watched a video tape that Ray brought by my work today and I still can't believe how crazy our main was!! Thanks!

I also want to thank everyone for their support this weekend. Dominic has a double ear infection and I was stressed all week. After that main, when all my family and friends came and congratulated me, I really really appreciated all the love and support. I've been doing this a REALLY long time and I am so glad it finally happened!!! And I still can't believe that Mike won right before me.. that was tooo cool...




Vicky
Like I said Vicky, Thanks go out to you, Mo and Dayger. It was the three of you that made my job so much fun in that main! Congratulations on that killer win!! And I hope Dominic feels better soon.
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Old 12-03-2003, 08:41 AM   #427
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I have the full "A" Mod 12th race in the video sections. Thanks Tim Stamper!

http://cleveland.nashrcracer.com
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Old 12-03-2003, 09:07 AM   #428
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nash- Is there any chance you could put that in Window's Media Player or Quicktime format?
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Old 12-03-2003, 09:22 AM   #429
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Quote:
Originally posted by futureal
Ray... psst... it's just a coincidence.

Don't you mean, can't wait for the 2004 ROAR Carpet Nationals??

R/C Tech will be there!
Awesome!!! We finally got a phone line at track and internet connection. Of course the very first minute we were online we got a worm!!! But we had enough PC/network savvy people they squashed it and fast.

See ya in March-then!!!

Ray
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Old 12-03-2003, 09:48 AM   #430
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Quote:
Originally posted by Frank McKinney
I just disagree that a race that is such a huge deal should use a single race at the end for the A mains. The ordeal is part of the intensity of the race. We can't have 40-minute electric TC racing but we can simulate that by having multiple races. Go to any race run by Scotty Ernst and you'll see how tension-filled a triple A main can be. A modern scoring system with working transponders doesn't make the racing any more complicated for anyone. It increases the intensity of the racing for the racers, spectators, pit crew and announcers.

But...people put up with it so there you go.



Flawless is AMBrc personal transponders. Powered off the racer's battery and no chance of scoring wrong. Dead heats, inspection delays and timing controversies have no place in a huge multinational race.



That's another thing - 510 entries and racing after midnight is, well...ludicrous is the word comes to mind. Racers are mentally and physically at their peak during the day or late morning, not hours after a reasonable bedtime when they should be sleeping and preparing for the next day's racing. If anything, the race IMO should be organized over more days and have defined start times of 8 AM and end times of 8 PM, AND/OR have an entry limit.

When there's a big scoring controversy at the end of the weekend and the officials are tired and may not want to deal with reviewing race footage or listening to protests, there's a problem.

Of course, this is all "just my opinion". Obviously there are 510 entries so there are enough people that put up with the problems and come back year after year. However, I think a race that is in its 15th or 20th year of running should improve year after year, not have the same problems year after year.

None of this is meant to bag on you (I'm guessing you were the announcer), unless, of course, you were one of the race officials I'm sure you did your part to run the races as smoothly as possible. But every race and race series could be improved. Hopefully next year Cleveland will be.
Frank: Yeah I was one of the announcers, AMBrc personals are no better than digital or even analog transponders in my opinion, we had a dead heat in 1/12th Mod at the Halloween Classic, triple A-mains wouldn't really help that situation because if we ran the other two and Josh won the first and Dumas won the second, they each have one win and a tie, they both had personal transponders and the software couldn't be anymore up to date. So that would solve nothing. Racing is about getting the combination right the first time. Not well I broke the first A but Barry won, I won the second A and Barry finished seventh, so now I have to finish at least 4th and Hope that Barry finishes lower than 7th blah, blah , blah. That's Math not Racing. The Flag drops and you let'em eat!!! Where you end up in the end is up to you, and Lady Luck.

When Schumacher, Tracy, or Kanaan gets involved in a wreck, or loses a gear box he doesn't get another shot at that race. Wheteher it's INDY, Monaco, or Mid-Ohio the next crack at that event is next year. The USTC is a series, the champion is crowned by points. Let's not confuse this amazing event with a Roar National. Part of the mystique of Cleveland is that you only get ONE CHANCE to get it right.
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Old 12-03-2003, 10:03 AM   #431
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Quote:
Originally posted by CypressMidWest
/snip/ That's Math not Racing. The Flag drops and you let'em eat!!! Where you end up in the end is up to you, and Lady Luck.
I understand where you're coming from, it's just that the r/c racing I'm used to includes the triple A, and it's like the end of a NASCAR, F1, WRC points series - if driver A gets this many points and driver B doesn't get this many points then driver A wins it, etc. The idea is, you get the points by doing well in the race, which of course is racing. The triple A just condenses a season's worth of points racing into several hours.

On the dead heats (I'd originally thought "dead heat" meant the transponders weren't working) the software figures out the tiebreakers so the officials don't have to. At this year's Reedy Race (using the latest Autoscore) there was a tie between Rick Hohwart and I think Andrew Swanson, they'd tied I think in 5 categories but the software sorted it out.

Quote:
/snip/ The USTC is a series, the champion is crowned by points. Let's not confuse this amazing event with a Roar National. Part of the mystique of Cleveland is that you only get ONE CHANCE to get it right.
Yup, again, "510 entries can't be wrong" That's the way the race is and that's the way it's been. I think I'm just armchair quarterbacking a little too much but again it's all my opinion and doesn't count anyway. I don't mean to take away anything from the race, the drivers or the event, I know how much work goes into even a small 2-day event, much less a week-long bonanza of racing.
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Old 12-03-2003, 10:22 AM   #432
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When Mr. Bill gets back from his post Champs Vaca-I will discuss with him a new rule for these finishes for at least his race and my race (Halloween Classic). And any of the other non-sanctioned races in the USTC series.

Ray
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Old 12-03-2003, 11:30 AM   #433
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Just wanted to give congrats to the winners. Also the race organizers did a fantastic job. With 500 + everything still went smoothly . Great job done by the announcers as well, you guys rock.
This whole controversy thing is kind of lame however. I am good friends with both of the drivers and would like to see them both win. The point of the matter is computers dont lie. Video replay????????Come on what are we watching a football game. In my 13 years of racing I have never heard such a thing.

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Old 12-03-2003, 11:38 AM   #434
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Frank: I'm not baggin' on you, just defending what I feel to be the greatest race in the Known Universe. I understand the ROAR Nationals Triple A-main format (I don't like it, but I understand), but after having attended a few of those events, and watching the same guy win the first two mains, It kinda makes me feel like it's not necessary. And there's nothing more intense than an "All the Marbles in 8 Minutes" sorta main. During the Stock 12th Main (best R/C race I've EVER SEEN), I practically had to push the tension in the air outta the way to get to the monitor!
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Old 12-03-2003, 02:08 PM   #435
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i am just wondering what all the fuss is about i could see if it was a dead tie like the first ohio race was but the computer had jon ahead by .04 or something transponders dont lie if it was any kind of real race it would go by the transponder time .. now dont get me wrong i like david josh and jon but lets give credit where it is due and ot make a big controversity about this JON ORR WON plain and simple the computer does not lie.
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