9LikesT.O.P. Racing "Photon" 1/10 EP Touring Car
07-03-2009, 09:41 AM
#1216
Tech Master
iTrader: (1)
John - Those ackerman #'s are the difference in relation from inside/outside wheel travel from 0 degrees. Example - Going back to the chart 21mm crank (shortest setting) with a 12mm insert gives you an inside wheel angle of 25 degrees with the outside turning 17.65 = 7.35 degrees of ackerman at 25 degrees of inside wheel travel.
I haven't looked back at the servo arm to calculate the amount of servo travel/angle. I have general #'s that I've liked to stay within for the servo arm, bell crank, steering block reduction.....
I haven't looked back at the servo arm to calculate the amount of servo travel/angle. I have general #'s that I've liked to stay within for the servo arm, bell crank, steering block reduction.....
07-03-2009, 10:03 AM
#1217
John - Those ackerman #'s are the difference in relation from inside/outside wheel travel from 0 degrees. Example - Going back to the chart 21mm crank (shortest setting) with a 12mm insert gives you an inside wheel angle of 25 degrees with the outside turning 17.65 = 7.35 degrees of ackerman at 25 degrees of inside wheel travel.
I haven't looked back at the servo arm to calculate the amount of servo travel/angle. I have general #'s that I've liked to stay within for the servo arm, bell crank, steering block reduction.....
I haven't looked back at the servo arm to calculate the amount of servo travel/angle. I have general #'s that I've liked to stay within for the servo arm, bell crank, steering block reduction.....
07-03-2009, 11:33 AM
#1218
07-03-2009, 12:00 PM
#1219
Hey Josh if I put a 2mm shim on my sway bars it seems the link will hit the cvds.. It takes a bit of suspension travel, but not out of the realm of possibilities . Just curious if you could give me a measurement from the bottom the ball cup to the top of the ball? Thanks..
Just thought i'd add.. 3mm and it seems to have all the room in the world in there..
Just thought i'd add.. 3mm and it seems to have all the room in the world in there..
Last edited by smoke81; 07-03-2009 at 12:14 PM.
07-03-2009, 02:11 PM
#1220
Did anybody get any Photon Decals?
07-03-2009, 02:18 PM
#1221
07-03-2009, 08:19 PM
#1224
hey guys,
droop measurement is to use the Droop Gauge,if follow manual, set it at F & R 5.5 . correct me if i am wrong.thanks
how about front 5.5 rear 1.
or front 1 rear 5.5. provide me some teory, will test later.
droop measurement is to use the Droop Gauge,if follow manual, set it at F & R 5.5 . correct me if i am wrong.thanks
how about front 5.5 rear 1.
or front 1 rear 5.5. provide me some teory, will test later.
07-03-2009, 11:52 PM
#1225
John - Those ackerman #'s are the difference in relation from inside/outside wheel travel from 0 degrees. Example - Going back to the chart 21mm crank (shortest setting) with a 12mm insert gives you an inside wheel angle of 25 degrees with the outside turning 17.65 = 7.35 degrees of ackerman at 25 degrees of inside wheel travel.
I haven't looked back at the servo arm to calculate the amount of servo travel/angle. I have general #'s that I've liked to stay within for the servo arm, bell crank, steering block reduction.....
I haven't looked back at the servo arm to calculate the amount of servo travel/angle. I have general #'s that I've liked to stay within for the servo arm, bell crank, steering block reduction.....
Radial Ackerman:
Pos. #1 St. Block Inside Wheel degree vs. Outside Wheel Degree
21mm Length 5degree 10degree 15degree 20degree 25degree
9mm Insert 4.72 8.93 12.62 15.81 18.48
10mm Insert 4.71 8.87 12.51 15.62 18.22
11mm Insert 4.69 8.81 12.39 15.43 17.94
12mm Insert 4.67 8.75 12.26 15.22 17.65
22.5mm Length
9mm Insert 4.76 9.07 12.93 16.32 19.21
10mm Insert 4.75 9.03 12.83 16.16 18.98
11mm Insert 4.74 8.98 12.73 15.99 18.74
12mm Insert 4.72 8.92 12.62 15.81 18.49
24mm Length
9mm Insert 4.8 9.21 13.21 16.78 19.89
10mm Insert 4.79 9.17 13.13 16.64 19.69
11mm Insert 4.78 9.13 13.04 16.5 19.48
12mm Insert 4.77 9.08 12.95 16.35 19.26
This is generated using a set wheel base - adjusting wheel base/hinge pin sweep can adjust these #'s. Also, this is generated using 0 toe in/out. This is to generate different ackerman curves.
Generally, lower initial ackerman (closer # values) generate more initial steering and can make the car loose in the center of the corner/exit. Be warned though that at times it can overheat the tires and cause a mid/late race understeer.
Higher initial ackerman makes the car easier to drive, and more balanced through the run. Sometimes though, if you use too much ackerman you will just have slow lap times and a lazy/understeering car. So far, I've prefered the shorter bell crank (21mm) with 9-10 for the ackerman insert as it gives good initial steering and good low speed steering without over heating the front tires so much. Also, this combination is quite close to the ackerman data generated from the 416 I was able to guess some dimensions off of....
Pos. #1 St. Block Inside Wheel degree vs. Outside Wheel Degree
21mm Length 5degree 10degree 15degree 20degree 25degree
9mm Insert 4.72 8.93 12.62 15.81 18.48
10mm Insert 4.71 8.87 12.51 15.62 18.22
11mm Insert 4.69 8.81 12.39 15.43 17.94
12mm Insert 4.67 8.75 12.26 15.22 17.65
22.5mm Length
9mm Insert 4.76 9.07 12.93 16.32 19.21
10mm Insert 4.75 9.03 12.83 16.16 18.98
11mm Insert 4.74 8.98 12.73 15.99 18.74
12mm Insert 4.72 8.92 12.62 15.81 18.49
24mm Length
9mm Insert 4.8 9.21 13.21 16.78 19.89
10mm Insert 4.79 9.17 13.13 16.64 19.69
11mm Insert 4.78 9.13 13.04 16.5 19.48
12mm Insert 4.77 9.08 12.95 16.35 19.26
This is generated using a set wheel base - adjusting wheel base/hinge pin sweep can adjust these #'s. Also, this is generated using 0 toe in/out. This is to generate different ackerman curves.
Generally, lower initial ackerman (closer # values) generate more initial steering and can make the car loose in the center of the corner/exit. Be warned though that at times it can overheat the tires and cause a mid/late race understeer.
Higher initial ackerman makes the car easier to drive, and more balanced through the run. Sometimes though, if you use too much ackerman you will just have slow lap times and a lazy/understeering car. So far, I've prefered the shorter bell crank (21mm) with 9-10 for the ackerman insert as it gives good initial steering and good low speed steering without over heating the front tires so much. Also, this combination is quite close to the ackerman data generated from the 416 I was able to guess some dimensions off of....
thanks
Next question, has anyone used the outside hole on the rear hub giving the longest setting for the rear camber link?
07-04-2009, 01:55 AM
#1226
Haven't tried that yet...
However, made the following changes to the kit setup and had the car running very nicely at the Hill last night despite the low grip and cold temps. New layout as well.
Stood up rear shocks one hole to position 2 at the top.
Inside front link from 2.5mm to 1mm
Inside rear link from 1.5mm to 0.5mm
07-04-2009, 06:23 AM
#1227
I debuted my car tonight in similar conditions (very low grip, very cold temps) and to be honest the car was absolute rubbish
I was lapping miles away from a competative pace.The car had a lot of off-power push, especially on the slow turns, but as soon as you got to the apex the car would then spin out. It was also very loose under throttle out of all low speed corners. Overall a very frustrating night and I'm not sure where to begin making changes
07-04-2009, 08:11 AM
#1228
07-04-2009, 04:16 PM
#1229
Tech Master
I don't have the Photon myself but a club member has it now and the car drives grate.
When I see te car go, its incredible stable and it roles great true the corner.
Josh you did a grate job. All the TOP critics are quit now and are only looking and don't dare to say any ting. Others are looking and making compliments about the car.
It's just fun to see them watch and don't dare to say any thing because they now the car is good, very good!!!
I think they want one to but don't dare to buy one because they were first talking like TOP was a cheap car and not a real car.
Thanks to you Josh I can laugh at them and I can't wait till I can buy my car.
Must wait till I get a letter from the tax that I may keep my money!!
When that's ok, I will buy a Photon.
Can't wait.
When I see te car go, its incredible stable and it roles great true the corner.
Josh you did a grate job. All the TOP critics are quit now and are only looking and don't dare to say any ting. Others are looking and making compliments about the car.
It's just fun to see them watch and don't dare to say any thing because they now the car is good, very good!!!
I think they want one to but don't dare to buy one because they were first talking like TOP was a cheap car and not a real car.
Thanks to you Josh I can laugh at them and I can't wait till I can buy my car.
Must wait till I get a letter from the tax that I may keep my money!!
When that's ok, I will buy a Photon.
Can't wait.
07-04-2009, 09:21 PM
#1230
What online dealers are stocking parts & such for the new car?
Mark
Mark