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Old 12-01-2012, 08:04 PM   #9001
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Got a couple of photons for sale.
http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=378091

Pictures here https://picasaweb.google.com/1109030...eat=directlink
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Old 01-03-2013, 07:04 PM   #9002
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Well I am slowly but surely getting the setup dialed in for VTA. Hopefully ill get a full day of testing in on Sunday. Still fighting an on power push, but its getting better each week. Things happen slow when you only make one change at a time I bought a second chassis to run usgt too

Quick question, is the caster adjustable? In the setup sheets I see options for 4,6,8*, but I can only find caster blocks in 4*.
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Old 01-03-2013, 08:50 PM   #9003
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Captian,

6 degree caster blocks have just been released, not sure who has them in USA. You can find them on the TOP Japan website.

Otherwise, you could adjust caster by adding spacers under the suspension mounts.

More spacers under the front suspension mount = more caster .. but adds 'pro-dive' (less initial turn in).
More spacers under the rear suspension mount = less caster .. but adds 'anti-dive' (more initial turn in)
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Old 01-04-2013, 09:45 AM   #9004
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Well I am slowly but surely getting the setup dialed in for VTA. Hopefully ill get a full day of testing in on Sunday. Still fighting an on power push, but its getting better each week. Things happen slow when you only make one change at a time I bought a second chassis to run usgt too

Quick question, is the caster adjustable? In the setup sheets I see options for 4,6,8*, but I can only find caster blocks in 4*.
TOP USA has the new parts TOP recently released. I wouldn't recommend 6 deg caster blocks. I'm also working on a VTA car and will be running it for the first time this weekend using the original Photon chassis. I'll post a setup here when i find something that works well.
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Old 01-04-2013, 09:55 AM   #9005
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Originally Posted by mazmo View Post
Captian,

6 degree caster blocks have just been released, not sure who has them in USA. You can find them on the TOP Japan website.

Otherwise, you could adjust caster by adding spacers under the suspension mounts.

More spacers under the front suspension mount = more caster .. but adds 'pro-dive' (less initial turn in).
More spacers under the rear suspension mount = less caster .. but adds 'anti-dive' (more initial turn in)
I thought adding spacers would work, but wasnt sure. Thanks for clarifying this.


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TOP USA has the new parts TOP recently released. I wouldn't recommend 6 deg caster blocks. I'm also working on a VTA car and will be running it for the first time this weekend using the original Photon chassis. I'll post a setup here when i find something that works well.
So far what I have done is the following (off the top of my head)
Moved front sway bar to the rear with medium diameter bar
shortened the wheelbase to the shortest amount
Soft springs up front, hard rear (dont remember the values, but this will vary anyway)
40wt shock oil all around (still messing with this)
Front spool, rear ball diff
Ride height is the lowest allowed (5mm)

I need to fill out a setup sheet so I can keep up with my changes. I'm still buying setup tools, so stuff like toe and droop I dont have an exact value for yet.
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Old 01-04-2013, 10:08 AM   #9006
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Soft springs up front, hard rear (dont remember the values, but this will vary anyway)
Do you typically run stiffer springs in the rear than in the front, or are you just trying to free the rear of the car up?

I don't run a Photon in VTA, but I would recommend leaving the front springs stiffer than the rear. I would then recommend dropping the front roll center as low as you can or raising the rear roll center (ideally try both to see which you would prefer, the important part here is just having the rear roll center higher than the front). This roll center change had a huge impact on my car when running VTA, so just something to think about.

You also didn't mention how much camber you are running...? Brent knows better than I do what kind of camber is typical on a Photon...
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Old 01-04-2013, 10:27 AM   #9007
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Do you typically run stiffer springs in the rear than in the front, or are you just trying to free the rear of the car up?

I don't run a Photon in VTA, but I would recommend leaving the front springs stiffer than the rear. I would then recommend dropping the front roll center as low as you can or raising the rear roll center (ideally try both to see which you would prefer, the important part here is just having the rear roll center higher than the front). This roll center change had a huge impact on my car when running VTA, so just something to think about.

You also didn't mention how much camber you are running...? Brent knows better than I do what kind of camber is typical on a Photon...
I softened up the front to get more steering out of it. I'll try the roll center adjustment when I get home. I'm trying to remember how to adjust it, is this done with the suspension mounts?

IIRC I'm running -2 camber.

I'll fill out a setup sheet tonight and get all the measurements that I can with the tools I currently have. Like I said before, I have been making 1 change at a time and I just havent gotten to the point of changing most things yet. This is also my first onroad car, and am learning everything along the way.

Thanks for the help guys, I'll get that setup sheet filled out and posted up sometime tonight.
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Old 01-04-2013, 11:50 AM   #9008
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Attached is a good setup to start with. First changes i would make if the car is pushy would be softer front springs, than move to raising the roll- center front and rear by removing the upper inner camber link spacers .5mm at a time. If the rear is still stuck to much remove .5mm from the Rear Rear toe spacers, don't go less than -2deg of rear toe or the car will start stepping out randomly. From there start reducing droop front and rear, i probably would go less than 1 mm over ride height on either end.

Hopefully with some of these changes you should have a fast car.

With any race car Tires are the biggest thing that effect the handling of the car. If your running brand new HPI vintage tires it will take some time to break them in. I would say 5-10 runs before they'll start to work. So don't be making excessive changes until this break in period has been completed.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Fairtrace_Horsham_setup_11-6-10.pdf (393.4 KB, 87 views)
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Old 01-04-2013, 01:40 PM   #9009
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Attached is a good setup to start with. First changes i would make if the car is pushy would be softer front springs, than move to raising the roll- center front and rear by removing the upper inner camber link spacers .5mm at a time. If the rear is still stuck to much remove .5mm from the Rear Rear toe spacers, don't go less than -2deg of rear toe or the car will start stepping out randomly. From there start reducing droop front and rear, i probably would go less than 1 mm over ride height on either end.

Hopefully with some of these changes you should have a fast car.

With any race car Tires are the biggest thing that effect the handling of the car. If your running brand new HPI vintage tires it will take some time to break them in. I would say 5-10 runs before they'll start to work. So don't be making excessive changes until this break in period has been completed.
Thanks dude, I'll compare this setup with what I have going on already and make any necessary changes for racing tomorrow. My tires are plenty broken in, hardly any tread left
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Old 01-06-2013, 07:00 PM   #9010
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Well I went and made a bunch of adjustments, only to have the layout changed when I showed up, lol. Car handled a lot better though. Thanks bkspeedo, used your setup as a reference. I can't edit the setup sheet on my iPad, have to do it at work tomorrow.

Question, will the assembled thrust bearing for the ex fit the photon? I'm rebuilding my diffs, and am going to replace the thrust balls and thought these would be easier.http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_...Thrust-Bearing

Here is the new layout, suggestions on setup?
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Last edited by The Captain; 01-06-2013 at 07:36 PM.
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Old 01-06-2013, 09:46 PM   #9011
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Diff for the EX and Photon are the same. So yes a thrust bearing from an EX will work in a Photon diff.

If the car is pushing, as I would expect with this setup, try reducing the rear toe slightly, raise the rear roll center a little, reduce rear camber. Maybe narrow up the rear of the car.
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Old 01-06-2013, 09:53 PM   #9012
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Diff for the EX and Photon are the same. So yes a thrust bearing from an EX will work in a Photon diff.

If the car is pushing, as I would expect with this setup, try reducing the rear toe slightly, raise the rear roll center a little, reduce rear camber. Maybe narrow up the rear of the car.
Rear roll center is at M, front L. I did take out some rear toe, and it helped a lot. Was going to take out a rear spacer for the width next time out.

Now, the theory:
Reducing the rear toe removes grip from the rear, and allows it to come around faster. I'm assuming the same can be said for the camber as well? I moved the rear shocks out 2 holes for this same reason, which helped, and also gave some more steering.

I'm getting the hang of this suspension geometry stuff, just need to keep doing it for a while so I retain all this info!
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Old 01-17-2013, 07:35 AM   #9013
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Got my VTA car put on a setup station, and found I had several things wrong. After we got those issues addressed the car handled A LOT better, felt like it had "finesse". Now I need to get my USGT car setup properly and I should be good to go.

Does anyone know what other brand gear/ball diffs fit the photon? My ball diffs need to be rebuilt bad! Figured I would see if there were any better options out there before I ordered up photon specific parts to rebuild them. I have been running gear diff in the front with 120k oil, ball diff out back.
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Old 01-17-2013, 07:35 AM   #9014
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Got my VTA car put on a setup station, and found I had several things wrong. After we got those issues addressed the car handled A LOT better, felt like it had "finesse". Now I need to get my USGT car setup properly and I should be good to go.

Does anyone know what other brand gear/ball diffs fit the photon? My ball diffs need to be rebuilt bad! Figured I would see if there were any better options out there before I ordered up photon specific parts to rebuild them. I have been running a gear diff in the front with 120k oil, ball diff out back.
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Old 01-17-2013, 12:58 PM   #9015
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Got my VTA car put on a setup station, and found I had several things wrong. After we got those issues addressed the car handled A LOT better, felt like it had "finesse". Now I need to get my USGT car setup properly and I should be good to go.

Does anyone know what other brand gear/ball diffs fit the photon? My ball diffs need to be rebuilt bad! Figured I would see if there were any better options out there before I ordered up photon specific parts to rebuild them. I have been running a gear diff in the front with 120k oil, ball diff out back.
bd5 yokomo gear diffs fit into the photon/ex & imo are far superior to the photon ones (sorry t.o.p.)just make sure you shim them corectly side to side to align the belts corectly.also make sure you get the yokomo white blades for the drive shafts if you go the yokomo diff
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