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Old 03-10-2009, 10:18 AM   #16
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The TC3, dare I say *gasp* might be faster then a lot of the newer touring cars for stock racing. At the very least right on par with them.

The TC3 will likely handle a bit better with brushless as it will be less likely to torque steer. Also brushless once you find the sweet spot you are pretty much set. A brushed motor is a little less consistent b/c things change over time.
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Old 03-10-2009, 10:41 AM   #17
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I have to agree with or8ital. The TC3 is a very fast and capable car for stock class.

One thing you may need to check on, you said some of the guys are running brushless. Does your track inforce any set rules for brushless vs. brushed. Find out what turns the fast guys are running. If they are 13.5 or above, you will most likely not catch them with a 27 turn.
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Old 03-10-2009, 11:52 AM   #18
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The rear being a little loose, turn in, and mid turn are where my TC3 needs some improvement. Increasing front caster is what I am going to try for the turn in condition.

3 degrees toe in will help the rear end bite with a little sacrifice to rolling resistance.
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Old 03-10-2009, 12:00 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Lonestar View Post
funny that everyone is talking dynos and HP and titanium before EagleTA2 has answered that question
I agree that driving is the single most important aspect of RC racing but I left that out because he stated that he has been racing for several years and feels he is on par with the other guys. I chose to give him the benefit of doubt.

That being said, a good old speed secret:

"Where you are on the track is more important than how fast you are going"

In other words, work on tightening up your lines even if it means backing off a bit earlier.
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Old 03-10-2009, 12:00 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by EagleTa2 View Post
Yes, I am still using brushed... and I believe the fastest guys are running brushless.
What motors are they using and what motor are you using?

What type of track is it?

We might be able to tell if there is a performance advantage at your track.

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Old 03-10-2009, 01:00 PM   #21
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Sorry if this seems mean... but maybe you're just not as fast as the fast guys?

Being slower than other racers is something you just have to learn to accept. It's like any sport, some people are just "better".

I have good equipment in my cars, a good setup, a lot of experience, and I don't crash. Yet I always end up finishing on a par with the same people, and I always get beaten by the same people.

It's quite educational to hand over your car to a "fast guy" and watch him knock a second a lap off your times straight away...

Keep at it though... if you keep shaving the tenths off, that 35 lapper will become a 36, a 37, a 38...
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Old 03-10-2009, 01:56 PM   #22
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To the OP, you should buy a new car and new equipment if you really feel like it is holding you back....
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Old 03-10-2009, 02:09 PM   #23
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4 laps behind the leaders sounds like a driver issue
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Old 03-10-2009, 02:22 PM   #24
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Sure a new car would give you that geewizz it feels faster feeling but if your 4 laps behind its not the car... its the driver...


Im a club racer and my commitment to practice is zero.... I shop up race and enjoy the nite. Im 2-3 laps behind our top driver. He is committed and sure he has the best gear, but so do i, i don't drive crap. On more then one occasion i have passed on my 007 to him for some practice laps, withing 3 or 4 laps he can drive the car withing .1second of his own fast laps and many times matching what he does with his own car.. I'm on average .5-.6 of lap slower then he is.

You sound like your more committed then i am so perhaps something is holding you back but 4 laps is alot to blame on one thing or the car..


It probably would not hurt to consider a brand new TC5 its current its well supported at the LHS and well its makes you feel good inside knowing everything is brand new and flawless.

What are the motor rules in your class? You runing brushed 27T what the the BL guys allowed to run? If its 13.5BL then that is going to be a huge part of your problem. You cant hang with a 13.5 with 27t unless you burn it up. We all converted to Lipo around here so i cant suggest that running nihm vs lipo hurts you.... maybe it can.. 4200s are getting pretty old im sure so i would consider a 40C SMC 5200 pack.
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Old 03-10-2009, 02:36 PM   #25
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Optimizing a race car depends partly on the track, for example, some tracks have natural passing points or overtaking points, where it pays to be faster. You can be slower in other places and effectively block the racing line ...

Tires + handling + downforce improve cornering power, the "gees" you pull in a turn. Downforce is more important in high speed turns. You get through the turn faster and have greater exit velocity. Study each turn to start going faster.

Rotational inertia in the driveline absorbs power during acceleration, and takes extra power in the brakes. This adds time and wastes battery watt-hours. I suspect some TC's have lower driveline inertia from the factory (no hard data on this). All rotating parts should be lighter to be faster.

Placement of weight at the front and rear makes car like a barbell. A mid-engine car handles better because weight in the center has a lower moment of inertia on the yaw axis. It is not just the front/rear balance but where the weight is distributed that impacts handling and "cornering feel."

Brushless motors are inherently better machines in terms of power to can volume, overall efficiency, and are more consistent, as mentioned above.

Better batteries have lower internal resistance, and the more energy in the battery, the lower the IR. A lighter car with less driveline inertia will stay high on the battery curve longer, other factors being equal, and this gives a little more peak power output over time.

I'm not a racer, just a systems engineer who studies strategic competition, so any racers please comment on your experience if it contradicts or confirms this outline.
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Old 03-10-2009, 02:57 PM   #26
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Like I previously posted... Just update your equipment and be done with it... If you don't improve at least you know it's not the equipment but more on the driving or the way you put your car together....
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Old 03-10-2009, 10:30 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Francis M. View Post
Like I previously posted... Just update your equipment and be done with it... If you don't improve at least you know it's not the equipment but more on the driving or the way you put your car together....

Or as also suggested above, try handing your car over to one of the fast guys. If he can turn the same sort of time he does in his car you've got your answer and kept your money too.

But on the issue of motors, at my track they allow brushless motors to be used alongside brushed in stock class but they have to be a on the approved list and they all are 17.5. A 13.5 brushless motor is equivalent to 19 turn brushed by our club's standards.
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Old 03-11-2009, 09:32 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by EagleTa2 View Post
I am geared up as high as possible, so I am pulling the trigger full throttle all the way around the track...
This appears as the most poinant thing you said, and if you're geared such that you're able to pull "full throttle all the way around the track" that you're WAY overgeared unless you're just running ovals. I've never run an onroad track where I wasn't constantly on and off the throttle, let alone stabbing the brakes.
Perhaps you've been in such a pursuit for max speed, and throwing more gear at it in an aimless search for more that speed, that you've forgetten the premise that onroad racing is won on the infield (turning) section of the track. This means being point & shoot "quick" in these sections, and not being geared for terminal velocity. You might want to check with the fast guys and find out what they're running gear ratio wise.

As others mentioned, if you're 4 laps down it sounds like driver error. I've seen lots of guys keep up fine on the straightaways that forget all about bouncing off the barriers the rest of the way around the track.
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Old 03-11-2009, 10:16 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Lightin' View Post
This appears as the most poinant thing you said, and if you're geared such that you're able to pull "full throttle all the way around the track" that you're WAY overgeared unless you're just running ovals.
That stood out to me too. That, and the fact the fast guys are running 39 laps in 4 minutes makes me think he is running oval. If that is the case, no motor or driving abiity will overcome a car that does not get through the turns.
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