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Old 03-11-2009, 02:50 PM   #181
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I usually don't take a cynical approach to my posts but...

I also agree that we need to "agree to disagree". But what we need to agree on is that if we plan racing, the bodies we will use will not be realistic and to scale (excluding Tamiya TCS). In TC we have the squashed jelly beans and in WGT/12th we will have wedges. And if a particular body proves to be the fastest, a la Mazda 6, we will see 70% of the drivers using it. For racers fast is what sells...
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Old 03-11-2009, 02:54 PM   #182
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Well first off for those that say "Go run pro10" to those who want some performance and are not so interested in realism...it's not so simple as that. First off there are not many racers to race two 1/10th scale pan car classes. Additionally there is almost no availability for 235mm cars and bodies in the US (Note that I said "almost"). So for those who want to run 1/10th pan cars about the only option now is WGT.

As for the whole realism vs performance debate...I find myself torn between the 2. I really love the scale looks of a nice Tamiya body but I also love racing the current crop of 1/12th scale bodies. Looking at the Sophia and the Astin I find them to be recognizable and acceptable...so long as they don't go as far as the oval bodies I've been seeing lately. I haven't seen oval in a long time and when I went to the Birds I was surprised by the new oval bodies. On the other hand I do think pro 10 and 1/12th have gone a bit too far away from scale realism.

One of the things I always loved about racing pan cars is that the bodies were of cars that you would only see on a track and not driving down the road next to you on the way to work, those I left to the TC guys. So for our local class we are looking at something more along the lines of a Super GT class.
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Old 03-11-2009, 02:55 PM   #183
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Did any of them win? Did any of them podium?
I didn't think so.
Which takes up back to the same old dead-horse argument that's less applicable as time goes by and more guys feel the need to have the latest steed to be competitive, and I won't even get into the lipo and brushless that you're now running, track time or no track time. If your argument was valid every one of you would have sold off your new car or reverted to an older model because you saw no need in a high tech TC5 or Xray009.

Anyway, sorry about the threadjack..... back to topic.
I like how you did not quote the part about the TA05 cars, which can be had for less than $200

Oh yeah, the TC3 got 4th.

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Old 03-11-2009, 03:17 PM   #184
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Well first off for those that say "Go run pro10" to those who want some performance and are not so interested in realism...it's not so simple as that. First off there are not many racers to race two 1/10th scale pan car classes. Additionally there is almost no availability for 235mm cars and bodies in the US (Note that I said "almost"). So for those who want to run 1/10th pan cars about the only option now is WGT.

As for the whole realism vs performance debate...I find myself torn between the 2. I really love the scale looks of a nice Tamiya body but I also love racing the current crop of 1/12th scale bodies. Looking at the Sophia and the Astin I find them to be recognizable and acceptable...so long as they don't go as far as the oval bodies I've been seeing lately. I haven't seen oval in a long time and when I went to the Birds I was surprised by the new oval bodies. On the other hand I do think pro 10 and 1/12th have gone a bit too far away from scale realism.

One of the things I always loved about racing pan cars is that the bodies were of cars that you would only see on a track and not driving down the road next to you on the way to work, those I left to the TC guys. So for our local class we are looking at something more along the lines of a Super GT class.
Don't forget there is a third group of people, as Team b+b mentioned, where there are racers that love going fast and using realistic bodies. When I read your post, you sound like you fall into group 3 as do most of us here.

However, I'll agree to disagree if we have official word from the powers that be, stating that realistic bodies and wedge bodies can be in the same class. Once that word is announced, I'll just sell off my car and stick with my TC and VTA cars. Reason being is that I will know what will happen from there; doorstop bodies everywhere.

I still think we should use the LMP 1 closed cockpit bodies instead, just like they do in 1/12 racing. I'd invite that more.
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Old 03-11-2009, 03:19 PM   #185
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Old 03-11-2009, 04:24 PM   #186
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I dunno... they both look very similar. Robk is good at resizing images, I am sure he will do a better job and show how similar they are. The only difference is the front end (ever so slightly).

As far as agree to disagree, I wish that was so, but we're trying to make sure that this class remains "realistic" and is enforced in the rules. Otherwise, I'd love to agree to disagree.
And I could point out all the areas that are different. I think you may have misunderstood me, I can see how similar they are; I'm saying that I can identify them as the car they are modeled after. As race bodies, they are going to have similarities in order to compete with each other, and that's ok with me. As far as remaining realistic, it depends on your definition of "realistic". I'm in favor of leaving the class the way it was introduced and is currently being raced at events like the IIC, Cleveland and Snowbirds
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Old 03-11-2009, 05:46 PM   #187
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Things that you realistic types don't take into consideration when critiquing our master model makers that make our race car shells... When a DD gets converted into a race car, teams and companies alike take licenses to actually change the shape of the original body of the car that they are racing.

NASCAR actually stepped in with the COT bodies and put strict limits on what the bodies could look like. The cars are all the same except for the girlle and hood, mostly for safety reasons, but you can be sure it was also to keep the teams from bellyaching about so and so that runs a whatever and gets better aero numbers than we do with our outmoded shell.


Here is an example of a DTM Merc C class. Sure, it's still recognizable, if you look at the grille and hood. But just about every other part of the shell has been distorted specifically for racing purposes.

Nobody has seen what the latest 8c would have looked like if they actually raced it today. But, having an expert that has spent many years carving blocks of foam to make shell molds tells me that it would have been close to what we have today.

Since I have seen the Parma shell in person, I will attest that the pictures do not show all the detail that went into the looks of the shell. I think it looks great.
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Old 03-11-2009, 06:40 PM   #188
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anybody running on pavement? what bodies, motors, cells?
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Old 03-11-2009, 06:43 PM   #189
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Harry: Yeah I think your right to a point on me...I like realistic bodies more but I still like a cool looking body no matter if it is modeled after something or not. I also take in account some things like tire wear as well...If I have to run say white tires on the rear and wear them out every other run I'd be more inclined to use a less realistic body in order to run a harder tire and get more life out of it.

Timmay: That is a good point right thar!
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Old 03-11-2009, 09:54 PM   #190
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I'm the group 3 type racer. This is a HPI Nissan Silvia GT, the wheels are trued to 2.108, they look a little small for the body for my liking but work the best. The roof height is quite a bit higher than the WGT rules, but it only seems to hurt it on really big tracks.

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Old 03-12-2009, 07:23 AM   #191
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Hi guys..............my two cents here.....
I race sometime at o track in oakville ontario.I was ther the other night and overheard some comments about some ' slow loser sporting a gino mobile'
I run a hpi Pontiac trans-am bodied tt01.It's black with fancy 5 spoke chrome wheels and realistic looking tires.And yes,exhaust tips.It would be wrong to not have them.
I love the hobby.I can make the car as realistic as I want to.I even run the car with brake rotors on it.Because it looks more realistic.It has a huge wing on it too.
This car turns my crank.It looks so badass cruising around the track.And there are some people who WANT to make their cars look like this but are afraid of ridicule.
I love that I am a "hobbyist".I do not want to spend thousands on getting the latest & greatest stuff to win and go fast.I just love the fact I can drive an rc car that looks like the real car I own.
Now if i could only get it to SOUND like my car...............
I have also found that the HPI Firebird Body handles great at 40mph and above.Really sticks to the asphalt at out local shopping mall parking lot.

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Old 03-12-2009, 07:49 AM   #192
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Just reading more of the debate going on here.I think that if you want to go fast in rc,you simply cannot ignore aerodynamics and downforce.I grew up racing slot cars and the fast cars ( open-unlimiteds) looked nothing like a car at all.Just a doorstop wedge it what they were.But at 80mph,that is what worked.same as rc. Down sizing a car changes how the areodynamic load is distributed across the body surface.Though the car is smaller,so it the hole in the air we are trying to make,but the actual pressure of the atmosphere has not.It is still the same.But the surface area is smaller.SO.............the way the pressure flows over/around the car has to be managed differently.The faster the car goes into a corner obviously dictates how the body must be shaped if you want the car to stick in a corner.It just can't have as good a grip if it looks like a real car.
I LOVE scale looking cars.I enjoy watching a rc car that LOOKS real racing other cars that LOOK real.I will enjoy going slower and will learn how to drive my car at IT"S limit.If I won't be fast,I'll be stylish.
Fast is good ,but for me REAL looking is better.
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Old 03-12-2009, 07:54 AM   #193
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here is one of my cars.
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Old 03-12-2009, 08:10 AM   #194
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anybody running on pavement? what bodies, motors, cells?
I run on asphalt, HPI Trans Am, Speed Passion 13.5, GP cells. When we started running last year it was before the spec tires came out, I was using 2x pink rear and purple front. There was almost no wear and the traction was great. It was the car everybody was trying to beat.

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Old 03-12-2009, 08:15 AM   #195
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Here is an example of a DTM Merc C class. Sure, it's still recognizable, if you look at the grille and hood. But just about every other part of the shell has been distorted specifically for racing purposes.
Thats just picking a car built to DTM rules though. For example, the C-Class is also raced in the DTCC (Danish Touring Car Championship) and doesn't need to be squashed at all.



Real GT cars aren't flattened, WGT bodies shouldn't need to be either.
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