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Old 03-09-2009, 01:22 PM   #136
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I saw the same Dumas demo drive and did not come away with the same impression as you. I thought that scale realism was supposed to be a factor but not the driving force behind the class.

I think there is a lot of wiggle room in the ROAR rules. When words like "deemed" are used it opens the rule up to someone's opinion. Since these bodies are used on 1/10th scale pan cars they can't be made in the same proportions as their full sized counterparts and are therefore out of scale. So the question becomes what is "realistic" enough to be considered a "replica". The word replica is actually mis-used in the ROAR rules since to be a replica the body would have to be an exact copy of the original in all dimensions. So that leaves it up to a person or comittee to decide whether a body is realistic enough to meet the intent of the class and approve it or not. I like the new bodies for their looks and appreciate that they really help my cars stick better in less than perfect conditions.

The biggest exception to the ROAR rules is the Sophia since it has not been raced as outlined in the rules; I would grant a pass to it for two reasons: Alfa Romeo's long racing heritage, and the fact that when this class barely existed Dale stuck his neck out and produced a body for it

This is a stupid argument for me to get into becasue I know you can't mess with someone's handling. Nobody wants to DRIVE the damn things anymore! You got babies crying about modified begin to fast and too difficult and now a hot new class is being ruined by guys wanting to make the cars faster. I don't get it!.
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Old 03-09-2009, 01:30 PM   #137
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This is a stupid argument for me to get into becasue I know you can't mess with someone's handling. Nobody wants to DRIVE the damn things anymore! You got babies crying about modified begin to fast and too difficult and now a hot new class is being ruined by guys wanting to make the cars faster. I don't get it!.
You are right, you can't usually get any support for making the cars harder to drive.

I'm not advocating making WGT faster, quite the contrary, I prefer the 4 cell format over what some people want. What I'm saying is I like the direction the class went at its inception and don't want to see it change.
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Old 03-09-2009, 01:39 PM   #138
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So I'm assuming any SuperGT body from Tamiya is approved?
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Old 03-09-2009, 02:00 PM   #139
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About 15+ yrs ago a definition of a GT car was published in a racing magazine, I can't remember the whole thing but the bits I do remember are:
A maximum of one door on each side of the vehicle.
A maximum seating capacity of 4.
I remember that cos I joked back then about the Mini being a GT car, just a shame i can't remember the rest
And yes, someone did try (for a few rounds) to run a VW Golf in the British GT Series a few years back.
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Old 03-09-2009, 02:48 PM   #140
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The biggest exception to the ROAR rules is the Sophia since it has not been raced as outlined in the rules; I would grant a pass to it for two reasons: Alfa Romeo's long racing heritage, and the fact that when this class barely existed Dale stuck his neck out and produced a body for it

Funny that the first car designed especially for the class was the one to set the realism scale. If Dale had come out with a car that looked exactly right but handled like poo I wonder if we'd be having the same argument but the other way around.
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Old 03-09-2009, 03:33 PM   #141
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Funny that the first car designed especially for the class was the one to set the realism scale. If Dale had come out with a car that looked exactly right but handled like poo I wonder if we'd be having the same argument but the other way around.
Given what is going on in Europe with the realistic bodies designed by HPI Racing and no complaints about poor handling, I doubt it.
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Old 03-09-2009, 04:12 PM   #142
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as Billy Crystal often said as Fernando Lamas did, "It's better to look good than to feel good."



To each their own. If you like to race something ugly then go ahead. But for those of us who dig the realism in body shells it's a small concession to run the same shells. Paint it bright orange, yellow, and white so you can see it better. Plus the first time you smack the wall, stuff it in the boards, forget to put in the body pins, you undo the argument for a "performance" shell.
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Old 03-09-2009, 04:26 PM   #143
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So I'm assuming any SuperGT body from Tamiya is approved?
Thats a good point, I think they are only 190mm but would look awesome.

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Old 03-09-2009, 05:39 PM   #144
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as Billy Crystal often said as Fernando Lamas did, "It's better to look good than to feel good."

To each their own. If you like to race something ugly then go ahead. But for those of us who dig the realism in body shells it's a small concession to run the same shells. Paint it bright orange, yellow, and white so you can see it better. Plus the first time you smack the wall, stuff it in the boards, forget to put in the body pins, you undo the argument for a "performance" shell.
What's that 2nd body back in that pic?

Nice looking Ferrari
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Old 03-09-2009, 08:17 PM   #145
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What's that 2nd body back in that pic?

Nice looking Ferrari
looks like a pagani zonda
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Old 03-10-2009, 12:04 AM   #146
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Originally Posted by Rick Hohwart View Post
This is a stupid argument for me to get into becasue I know you can't mess with someone's handling. Nobody wants to DRIVE the damn things anymore! You got babies crying about modified begin to fast and too difficult and now a hot new class is being ruined by guys wanting to make the cars faster. I don't get it!.
Hi Rick,

I don't think you could be more off-base with that statement. The reason modified is too fast is completely different than why people want aerodynamics in WGT.

The idea of WGT has always been about putting a simple car on the track that people can drive. The more aero the better in my opinion, we are controlling the raw speed with the motor and battery limits. Why on earth should we make these cars harder to drive? Are you proposing we make everything as difficult as mod and have the only 12 people on earth who can do it race while the rest of us watch?

Sounds like tons of fun...

I guess in the end, if you want to race models then WGT isn't for you. Why are we still debating this? If you don't like it, move on. Lots of people don't care for dirt or oval but I don't see threads popping up about how we can make oval cars turn right so that 10% of the RC Tech population can be happy about something.

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Old 03-10-2009, 12:34 AM   #147
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Hi Rick,

I don't think you could be more off-base with that statement. The reason modified is too fast is completely different than why people want aerodynamics in WGT.

The idea of WGT has always been about putting a simple car on the track that people can drive. The more aero the better in my opinion, we are controlling the raw speed with the motor and battery limits. Why on earth should we make these cars harder to drive? Are you proposing we make everything as difficult as mod and have the only 12 people on earth who can do it race while the rest of us watch?

Sounds like tons of fun...

I guess in the end, if you want to race models then WGT isn't for you. Why are we still debating this? If you don't like it, move on. Lots of people don't care for dirt or oval but I don't see threads popping up about how we can make oval cars turn right so that 10% of the RC Tech population can be happy about something.

Nick
IIC was looking to emulate realism at slower speeds to distiguish themselves from the the 235 mm Pro 10 class and race scale models. I don't think the aero advantage comes into play in WGT as much as we want to think it does. The cars are just too slow to take advantage for the average club racer where on carpet, mechanical grip and setup are more important. I know a few drivers that could run a nicely painted egg crate and lap me twice. It is just proof that a good, short and clean lap with good tuning will always be superior to the latest gotta have body. The bodies will have to be stretched to fit the chassis, no way around that at this time and I can personally concede that. I don't think anyone is putting these in wind tunnels to seek the least resistance possible and the low nose and oversized rear wing is frowned on for the sake of realism as set forth in the rules. As for the IIC list, I do wish the list were expanded and more of the true GT bodies accepted. But again, this list of adopted rules still has to be managed at the local level. Any body that proves to be far superior and is causing a separation might have to be regulated.

And I agree there are only a few people who want to or can truly run a Pro 10 mod 235 mm chassis properly and competitively. They are made for the open paved outdoor course for pure speed. Completely different bird altogether from World GT. I think there is a lot of confusion and hurt feelings when others say pan is dead and this is the comeback or revival. Well, in most cities in the US it is dead for the 235s just for the reason mentioned above alone. We want inexpensive, durable, fun and somewhat realistic racing. I see arguments from both sides trying to force everyone to agree. But the more I read the posts, the more I go back and read the rules. Love them or hate them, its your choice to use them.
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Old 03-10-2009, 02:41 AM   #148
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Other than the Protoform Puegot are there any other 235mm pan car bodies available in the US anymore?
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Old 03-10-2009, 06:45 AM   #149
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What's that 2nd body back in that pic?

Nice looking Ferrari
It is a HPI Zonda, the handling of the shell was not good. My BMI is the 3rd car back which has a HPI 911 GT3 on it which actually handled pretty well and was only slightly slammed to retain a good deal of realism.

JASON
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Old 03-10-2009, 08:10 AM   #150
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It is a HPI Zonda, the handling of the shell was not good. My BMI is the 3rd car back which has a HPI 911 GT3 on it which actually handled pretty well and was only slightly slammed to retain a good deal of realism.

JASON
Good to hear the 911 handled, guess it must have been a slow course as we have found them to go very light on the rear at speed.
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