R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 03-03-2009, 08:32 PM   #61
Tech Champion
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: St Louis
Posts: 7,868
Trader Rating: 198 (100%+)
Default

If you want to race scale looking cars then you need to be in the Tamiya TCS series and stay there. I do not think the WGT class was intended to be a realistic body class. At least that was not the impression Bruce gave me at the carpet nats last year. I was in sedan racing when it started and realistic BMW's and Mercedes were cool but they handled horribly.

I am in the process of painting one of these Parma DB-9's. This is one of the best pulls I have scene from Parma. Very good mold finish compared to some of the older bodies. It is a cool looking body. I just do not like the louvers on the hood. It makes painting some designs a royal pain.

I like the looks, good job Paul on this one.
__________________
Please become an organ donor.
www.donatelife.net
Custom decals and Sno-Tee'z, T-Shirts by Sno Camel
dodgeguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2009, 09:13 PM   #62
Tech Fanatic
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 904
Trader Rating: 23 (100%+)
Default

Now I just need to get a WGT car so I can run one. Nice job chicky!
SteveL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2009, 09:45 PM   #63
Tech Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 620
Default

Hello Paul C and Mike M;

Hey – I hope you guys don’t mind me coming on your thread. Just want to say “ nice work on the new DB-9 body”. Seriously.

I’m really confused by many of the comments I’ve read here however. Comments about the inevitable demise of what “might have been a great class”. Wow. So much negativity. Have you guys been hangin’ with Obama or something? Or maybe they’re just former Tamiya TCS racers looking at a way of going a bit faster. ??

When the WGT rules started to take shape last year there were a few things that were very predictable. Because this is a “racing” class, it means that racers - doing what they do best, won’t leave a thing on the table in the search for speed and handling. They’ll push the envelope everywhere possible. It’s the “normal” thing to do in every form of motorsports in the world - and always has been. Why on earth would you guys expect companies like Parma or Protoform to supply WGT racers with “performance compromised” race-bodies? There’d be quite a few other (asian) body companies who would oblige them real quickly with a serious “race” body.

I knew last summer that because the WGT would be using pan car chassis, the front tires would be raced at 2.1 inch diameter, and the rears would be approximately the same (or a hair larger). That’s a full 28% under true scale size in the front and 33% undersize in the rear. Now – by comparison, the WGT minimum height rule of 104mm is only 18% lower than the true scale height of a GT Car.
As a body designer this leaves you with 2 choices. Either I make a scale looking body that looks awesome when not mounted – but ridiculous when put on the car – or I use the pre-determined tire OD as a guide to how the body shape and dimensions are to be configured. A real 1:1 GT racer has front tires that are 26.5 in. dia and the rears are 28 in. dia. (or a scale 2.65 in. fronts and 2.8 in dia rears) The 1:1 GT cars in the area of 48 in. tall (or a scale 122mm)

I know I'm bombarding you with a lot of numbers, but that's the only way I can possible show you the dynamics of what you're all talking about. Please take a moment and think it through. As can be seen, Paul and myself have chosen to do the second of the two options. When I go to the local club track, there’s always a few guy running the ultra-realistic bodies on their cars, running at the back of the c-main – and having serious traction rolling problems. The guys running “racing” bodies just seem to be having more fun. Forgive me for being presumptuous.

If you guys are so serious about a scale look for the WGT class, why don’t you think about lobbying the sanctioning bodies for new minimum diameter tire OD rules? Hey, it’s the VTA mandated HPI wheels and tires that make the Vintage Trans Am class so realistic and very cool looking. You simply can’t have it both ways – and yet there’s a myth out there that it’s somehow possible.

The Pulfinator seems to have it figured out pretty much.
Quote:
I'm confused... not sure of your argument. If your argument is the bodies should be real looking or should they be of a more recognizable manufacture. In either case here is my 2 cents. RC cars weight to horsepower ratio is significantly greater than that of real cars, weight bias we can go on and on. The trends are not the most realistic, but what can and does work well. If you produce an exact replica and it doesn't work good it won't sell period. Which is exactly your point. The problem isn't the manufactures it's the consumers, supply and demand. I think this class is more based on cost and give an alternative to the touring class which has kind of self destructed it self. Not sure what the right answer is but this class is fun and I like the bodies slot car or not.
__________________

Paul: welcome to the fray! Looking forward to seeing you at the track soon.

Best regards – Dale Epp - Protoform
daleepp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2009, 10:03 PM   #64
Tech Elite
 
HarryN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Maryland, USA
Posts: 2,009
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to HarryN
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by daleepp View Post
Hello Paul C and Mike M;

Hey – I hope you guys don’t mind me coming on your thread. Just want to say “ nice work on the new DB-9 body”. Seriously.

I’m really confused by many of the comments I’ve read here however. Comments about the inevitable demise of what “might have been a great class”. Wow. So much negativity. Have you guys been hangin’ with Obama or something? Or maybe they’re just former Tamiya TCS racers looking at a way of going a bit faster. ??

When the WGT rules started to take shape last year there were a few things that were very predictable. Because this is a “racing” class, it means that racers - doing what they do best, won’t leave a thing on the table in the search for speed and handling. They’ll push the envelope everywhere possible. It’s the “normal” thing to do in every form of motorsports in the world - and always has been. Why on earth would you guys expect companies like Parma or Protoform to supply WGT racers with “performance compromised” race-bodies? There’d be quite a few other (asian) body companies who would oblige them real quickly with a serious “race” body.

I knew last summer that because the WGT would be using pan car chassis, the front tires would be raced at 2.1 inch diameter, and the rears would be approximately the same (or a hair larger). That’s a full 28% under true scale size in the front and 33% undersize in the rear. Now – by comparison, the WGT minimum height rule of 104mm is only 18% lower than the true scale height of a GT Car.
As a body designer this leaves you with 2 choices. Either I make a scale looking body that looks awesome when not mounted – but ridiculous when put on the car – or I use the pre-determined tire OD as a guide to how the body shape and dimensions are to be configured. A real 1:1 GT racer has front tires that are 26.5 in. dia and the rears are 28 in. dia. (or a scale 2.65 in. fronts and 2.8 in dia rears) The 1:1 GT cars in the area of 48 in. tall (or a scale 122mm)

I know I'm bombarding you with a lot of numbers, but that's the only way I can possible show you the dynamics of what you're all talking about. Please take a moment and think it through. As can be seen, Paul and myself have chosen to do the second of the two options. When I go to the local club track, there’s always a few guy running the ultra-realistic bodies on their cars, running at the back of the c-main – and having serious traction rolling problems. The guys running “racing” bodies just seem to be having more fun. Forgive me for being presumptuous.

If you guys are so serious about a scale look for the WGT class, why don’t you think about lobbying the sanctioning bodies for new minimum diameter tire OD rules? Hey, it’s the VTA mandated HPI wheels and tires that make the Vintage Trans Am class so realistic and very cool looking. You simply can’t have it both ways – and yet there’s a myth out there that it’s somehow possible.

The Pulfinator seems to have it figured out pretty much.



Paul: welcome to the fray! Looking forward to seeing you at the track soon.

Best regards – Dale Epp - Protoform
Hey Dale,

Definitely good sportsmanship coming to another comapny's thread and acknowledging their great work. That definitely earned brownie points in my book!

The thing that made me join the 200mm pan car class was from what was told to me about what the class was about; realistic car bodies to simulate scale racing of real cars seen in Le Mans, GT, and GP races. I am a huge car nut and big time race fan. So after hearing about this, I jumped on the band wagon. I saw the Sophie body you produced and I was excited! It reminded me of the Alfa Romeo Competizione 8C, however fell short in terms of realistic looks. I won't lie, I will definitely buy the body, along with Parma's Aston Martin body. But the fact that realism was pitched to me, I was sold. As were some of the people here. My negativity may be more of a feeling similar to a face palm with the trite response of "Damnit, I been had."

I, for one, apologize if I came out crass, but it's eating me a bit. And before someone says go play with Tamiya TCS cars, sorry. Not gonna happen. I love my CRC Gen X 10 car a ton. I was pitched and sold on 200mm pan cars simulating realistic cars.

I appreciate the numbers you mentioned as well. I admit I had to ask a friend to explain what they meant (since he is an engineer ) and after explaining how simulating realistic cars with their performance with scaled down cars not giving the same results, I guess I am starting to accept the truth. And in terms of setting a limit to tire sizes, I guess I can pitch that idea to my track as well and see what happens. If need be, I can play guinea pig and see how it plays out.

Sorry Paul and Dale. I'm just a bit bummed right now and I feel like I been had when I already had an Xray T2'009 and T2R Pro to enjoy the non-realistic class cars.
__________________
Car(s): Team Losi 22 1/10 Buggy, Team Losi 22 1/10 Stadium Truck
Motors/Engines: SP 13.5 v1.0, SP 17.5 v3.0 x2, RevTech 7.5
Radio: Spektrum DX3R, DX3S
Cars For Sale: FG 08-530 EVO w/ Sport Brakes!
Track(s): http://www.rctrack.com
HarryN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2009, 10:53 PM   #65
Tech Rookie
 
9jester9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 14
Post lol

ya most of these people seem to have no lives, dont listen to them. they make up a very small part of the hobby, and have nothing else. all these opinions are just that, opinions.
this is the best class for new times, TC is finished and should be allowed to die. all the negativity stems from these people not getting their own way and thinking they have some righteous agenda.
shuddup and let the companies decide what they want to release for bodies, and the founders figure out the rules. if you dont like it, DONT RACE IT PUTZ!!!!
GEEZ! please close this stupid thread now.
oh nice work Parma! and of course Protoform.
Attached Thumbnails
Parma DB-9 WGT body-0127091316.jpg  
9jester9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2009, 12:15 AM   #66
Tech Champion
 
robk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Macho Business Donkey Wrestler
Posts: 7,586
Trader Rating: 22 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 9jester9 View Post
this is the best class for new times, TC is finished and should be allowed to die. all the negativity stems from these people not getting their own way and thinking they have some righteous agenda.
Maybe some people want to have a class for realistic bodies.

Honestly, this just shows that there are a lot of people who just care about speed and handling. In any case, why bother with the Gt style cars? Just get a 200mm Can Am or prototype body and be done with all this. There is no point to running a GT car if you are trying deform the looks for speed. Just run the proto bodies, which are 95% closer to what you are looking for anyway.
__________________
A mutually re-enforcing cascade of failure

"Failior [sic] crowns enterprise." Robert Goddard

I-Lap Scoring Systems http://www.rclapcounter.com/
robk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2009, 04:06 AM   #67
Company Representative
 
Team Kwik's Avatar
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 517
Send a message via AIM to Team Kwik Send a message via MSN to Team Kwik
Default I think people have misunderstood things slightly....

Hi guys,

I think many people have managed to misunderstand things, like the intent of this class from the get go. After talking to Bruce Carbone a little tonight and thinking about things on my ride home from the track earlier it dawned on me.

When this class started the term being used was "identifiable bodies" and somewhere along the way that has been replaced with "realistic bodies". I apologize right now for the next illustration Paul as I don't want to thread-jack here at all but hopefully this proves a point.

What's this a picture of?



Hey! That looks an awful lot like an Aston Martin!

How about this one?



Wait a minute, that must be a Corvette!

That was fun, wasn't it? Let's try a couple more just for fun. Can you identify this car?



(This is said with the utmost respect for you Dale, it's a great body man!)
Ohh yea, that's umm, a, umm, jeez, a, umm, BLOB. While I think we can all agree that it does have some real automotive INFLUENCE I really don't think anyone can say in all honestly that's a ______.

And of course, just to keep it fair. Can you name this real automobile?



(Again, this is said with the utmost respect for you guys Paul, another great body!)
Of course you can't identify this car, you might be able to point out some features that are influenced by the automotive world but again, lets be honest about it. How many of you have passed a car that looks like that on the highway?

To wrap it all up I think this class is heading in the right direction and the people at Parma should be given a pat on the back for investing time and money here. Without manufacturers like them stepping up to the plate and providing us all with these options we wouldn't have much of a class at all. I still believe that World GT is the future of racing. They handle well, represent cars that newcomers can identify with and above all they are simple and inexpensive to get and keep on the track.

Not seeing any downsides to this.

Take care,
Nick
__________________
Team Kwik
http://www.teamkwik.com
Team Kwik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2009, 06:01 AM   #68
Tech Elite
 
Skiddins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Windsor, UK
Posts: 4,761
Default

Quote:
Hey! That looks an awful lot like an Aston Martin!
But remove the grill and distinctive colours and it's....a mess.

All the TC shells look the same, dreary jellymolds, several times I've gotten the window masks mixed up by accident and not realised until afterwards that I've used the wrong ones due to the fact they are all interchangable

The other thing I have noticed in this thread, the bigger name US drivers want more realistic bodies and the club racers want whatever helps make their performances look better at their local club race

Skiddins
__________________
Xray T4'18, T4'14 (Wet Car)
Xray X12 2018
Xray X1'16
wlrc.co.uk (West London Racing Centre)
RCDisco.co.uk
Skiddins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2009, 06:04 AM   #69
Tech Addict
 
academygaz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 718
Default

The problem is, ''apparently'' these two cars are Aston Martins:





The Parma one is.....if you've got cataracts. I really hope the BRCA doesn't pass it as legal.

And if there's no lee-way for realism vs performance, screw the whole idea, run this, its 200mm anyway:



And oh, look, Pro-10...
__________________
Quote, Leodis, 2007: ''I've been shopping online for 9 years and the only charge I've ever had to dispute with my credit card company was from TiR. Congratulations TiR. Even porn sites are more ethical than your company!''

RC cars - I haz sum.
academygaz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2009, 06:12 AM   #70
Tech Addict
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 649
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

If there's a body out there that you like better then simply have that company submit it for approval. It's not like you can't run "realistic" bodies.

Should we start a new thread about WGT instead of hijacking the Parma thread?
Fred_B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2009, 06:44 AM   #71
Tech Elite
 
HarryN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Maryland, USA
Posts: 2,009
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to HarryN
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred_B View Post
If there's a body out there that you like better then simply have that company submit it for approval. It's not like you can't run "realistic" bodies.

Should we start a new thread about WGT instead of hijacking the Parma thread?
I think this is a good idea. We've hijacked Paul's thread too much.

Sounds like this is going to be a heated discussion about bodies on pan cars.
__________________
Car(s): Team Losi 22 1/10 Buggy, Team Losi 22 1/10 Stadium Truck
Motors/Engines: SP 13.5 v1.0, SP 17.5 v3.0 x2, RevTech 7.5
Radio: Spektrum DX3R, DX3S
Cars For Sale: FG 08-530 EVO w/ Sport Brakes!
Track(s): http://www.rctrack.com
HarryN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2009, 07:02 AM   #72
Tech Adept
 
Rob Burns's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Sydney
Posts: 176
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Default

The Parma body is significantly more recognisable as a DB9-R than the Protoform Sophia is of whatever it is suppose to be. Not knocking the Sophia, I run it but for people to knock the parma body as unrealistic when the Sophia body got lots of love is a bit much.
__________________
www.RCOttawa.com
Rob Burns is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2009, 07:50 AM   #73
Tech Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 620
Default

Skiddins;
Quote:
The other thing I have noticed in this thread, the bigger name US drivers want more realistic bodies and the club racers want whatever helps make their performances look better at their local club race


Ya, and the other thing that I noticed on this thread is that Britney Spears is really really misunderstood. Uh Huh.

Dale

(sorry Paul )
daleepp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2009, 08:13 AM   #74
Tech Champion
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 5,360
Trader Rating: 38 (100%+)
Default

Looks like someone has created a debate thread here:

http://www.rctech.net/forum/electric...te-thread.html
or8ital is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2009, 08:15 AM   #75
Tech Rookie
 
9jester9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 14
Default once again...

back to topic, nice work Parma!

Last edited by 9jester9; 03-04-2009 at 11:36 AM. Reason: no point...
9jester9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 03:17 PM.


Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net