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Old 03-03-2009, 09:36 AM   #31
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This link posted earlier by Skiddins,

http://www.rcracechat.com/vb/showthread.php?t=48175

Shows exactly what I thought was going to be one of the highlights of 1/10th pan cars coming back. Good looking and easily identifiabe bodies on the grid.

In an effort to get this back on topic (Parma Bodies); I will ask the following question.

CAN WE EXPECT TO SEE SOME WGT BODIES THAT THE AVERAGE AMERICAN ENTHUSIAST CAN CONNECT WITH, TO BE PRODUCED BY PARMA?
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Old 03-03-2009, 09:37 AM   #32
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First off, it's not like Protoform or Parma are forcing us to run their bodies. You can run any of the approved bodies at a big race.

Take note of the people saying that they don't like the new body. You'll likely see those same people mounting up one of these "doorstops" on their cars once the fast guys start winning with it.

Personally, I think the car looks fine and carries as much of the original design as needed.

I'd still rather see this class with LMP bodies but that just isn't going to happen any time soon.
Fred, the point is thus; when more and more people run the Sophie and this body, it is going to force others to do the same in order to keep up. Then from there, the class loses its image and becomes just another "unrealistic car" class.

Again, I think Parma did a great job with this body and personally, I think it will outperform the Protoform body (sorry Dale ). However, I do not want to see this class degenerate itself into the same class as the 10th scale sedan cars with unrecognizeable cars.

As far as LMP bodies, I'll pass on that. It will be just like the 8th scale class where the LMP body becomes anything you want, as long as the back end has a tail the size of a whale. No way. Unless the LMP cars look exactly like the Audi R10 TDI or the Lola LMP, heck crap gosh darn no. Sorry for the vulgar cursing, but it had to be said.

Please Parma and Protoform, do not kill the beauty of this class. If you have to make LMP cars, PLEASE use REAL CAR templates like HPI and Tamiya do. PLEASE!!

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Old 03-03-2009, 10:48 AM   #33
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I dont really see that much of a difference between these 2 pictures except the R/C body being a little lower in the front.

https://www.hiroboy.com/catalog/imag...ton-martin.jpg
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Parma DB-9 WGT body-10225_sell.jpg  
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Old 03-03-2009, 11:05 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by chicky03 View Post
I dont really see that much of a difference between these 2 pictures except the R/C body being a little lower in the front.

https://www.hiroboy.com/catalog/imag...ton-martin.jpg
It's a lot lower at the front which ruins the look and makes it a doorstop.

Peel off the stickers and remove the distinctive paint you then wouldn't be able to tell what it is...just like all the TC's

Here's the list for the UK;

http://www.centralbooking.org/cbs/in...ent&Itemid=109

Not many, find me someone who isn't running the Either the Corvette or the Sophia.

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Old 03-03-2009, 11:14 AM   #35
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This class was doomed even before the first race.

It looked like everyone at the '08 IIC was gong to run Corvettes (which they did) but the first thing to do was slam them to the ridiculously low body height minimum. At the very first notable race the class was headed in an unintended direction.

Enter the next race with a new body that looks little like the original (what ever happened to cars having to have been raced to be legal?). Now we have the latest competitor that is at least a real race car but not a very good representation of it.

This is a racer problem. The manufacturer's make what people will buy and what organizers will allow. Nobody will revert to the HPI Corvette using the lower cut lines because nobody will be willing to give up their handling (even if it is the same for everyone).

It is really a shame because this class has basically take TC and gone sideways instead of looking back to what popularized TC in the first place - realism and identifiable bodies.

Scotty is pretty much the only person who has the power to make the right decision and only allow realistic bodies and proportions for the upcoming IIC. It may not be too late to turn this class in the right direction instead of allowing it to continue toward a cliff.
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Old 03-03-2009, 11:39 AM   #36
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This class was doomed even before the first race.

It looked like everyone at the '08 IIC was gong to run Corvettes (which they did) but the first thing to do was slam them to the ridiculously low body height minimum. At the very first notable race the class was headed in an unintended direction.

Enter the next race with a new body that looks little like the original (what ever happened to cars having to have been raced to be legal?). Now we have the latest competitor that is at least a real race car but not a very good representation of it.

This is a racer problem. The manufacturer's make what people will buy and what organizers will allow. Nobody will revert to the HPI Corvette using the lower cut lines because nobody will be willing to give up their handling (even if it is the same for everyone).

It is really a shame because this class has basically take TC and gone sideways instead of looking back to what popularized TC in the first place - realism and identifiable bodies.

Scotty is pretty much the only person who has the power to make the right decision and only allow realistic bodies and proportions for the upcoming IIC. It may not be too late to turn this class in the right direction instead of allowing it to continue toward a cliff.

Thank you! And well said by the way.

I believe that the manufactures should be responsible and keep the bodies realistic. But if they dont then as Rick said its a racers problem. Its a problem that we should be able to cure by choosing not to purchase a body that does not mesh with the origional spirit of the class. I think we all know that this wont work though because it only take that one jerk to screw this up.

So ultimately it may in fact rest in the hands of the race directors to keep the class "honest".
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Old 03-03-2009, 12:23 PM   #37
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Thanks for all the input and opinions but does anyone really know what the intent of the class was supposed to be? I showed Bruce Carbone the body at the Snowbirds and he absolutley loved it. I would think if this body was not in the spirit of the rules he would have told me at that time. He was the creator of the class you know.

Why would we make a body that can't compete with the Protoform Sophia when what we did was perfectly legal and within the rules? The DB9 is no worse than the Sophia everyone seems to have loved in their thread.

Paul
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Old 03-03-2009, 12:33 PM   #38
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The DB9 is no worse than the Sophia everyone seems to have loved in their thread.
how do you sleep at night?
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Old 03-03-2009, 12:43 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by chicky03 View Post
TThe DB9 is no worse than the Sophia everyone seems to have loved in their thread.

Paul
I admit I haven't read any of that thread, but I also admit don't like the Sophia for the reaons we've all stated.

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Old 03-03-2009, 12:50 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by mrrcguy View Post
Thank you! And well said by the way.

I believe that the manufactures should be responsible and keep the bodies realistic. But if they dont then as Rick said its a racers problem. Its a problem that we should be able to cure by choosing not to purchase a body that does not mesh with the origional spirit of the class. I think we all know that this wont work though because it only take that one jerk to screw this up.

So ultimately it may in fact rest in the hands of the race directors to keep the class "honest".
Well, I am going to try and talk to my track and the racers there about using realistic bodies and outlawing the Sophie and this body. If that does not work, then I guess we can make a mod class for 200mm pan cars and have these bodies be required to run the mod class.

I also do not want this class to be like the TC class. But again, if no restrictions are made, as in no grey areas left to where Proto or Parma say "Well if you use the stickers it is the same thing as the real car" or "The front/rear of the car is only a hair lower than the real car" (when it actually isn't), that alone may tease people to buy the bodies and use them in races, knowing full well they will have the advantage. Sure the racer is at fault here, but if other companies are going to make bodies for this class, wouldn't respect for what the class stands for play a role here and not tempt racers to purchase the bodies? Personally, I'd love to run a realistic body, but if there is a better performing body like this one from Parma or Proto's Sophie body, I'd be tempted enough to get one. I won't lie. All it takes is a sponsored driver to use one of these bodies in the class and demolish the others in a race. That will be enough for other racers to grab a body.
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Old 03-03-2009, 12:54 PM   #41
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I am very surprised to see how important it is for you to have realistic bodies.

Why do we have to love REAL cars to like RC ? As far as I'm concerned I don't care AT ALL about real cars. I never watch it on tv, never bought a single car magazine... and it it also the case for MANY of my RC buddies !

Why should we be dependant on the already existing cars ? It is not realism that will bring new blood to the hobby.

It they could, I guess 1:1 designers would design cars such as the parma db9 or the PF sophia, and everybody would find it beautiful... because IT IS ! ( of course the sophia will be better, as usual ;-)

1/12 is growing again, and that is certainly not because of an increase of realism in the bodyshells.

Even if we could make and impose realistic bodies, the speed and handling (and the noise !) of our cars yould still be very far from realistic, and we would just go slowler. Great job.

I don't agree in saying that TC became popular because of the realistic bodies.

TC started being cool when it started going FAST , and it was at the same time that realistic bodies disappeared.

If you like realism, just buy die cast models !

Back on topic, this parma body looks wonderful !!!
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Old 03-03-2009, 12:56 PM   #42
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As far as LMP bodies, I'll pass on that. It will be just like the 8th scale class where the LMP body becomes anything you want, as long as the back end has a tail the size of a whale. No way. Unless the LMP cars look exactly like the Audi R10 TDI or the Lola LMP, heck crap gosh darn no. Sorry for the vulgar cursing, but it had to be said.
I disagree...We are setting up our local pan car class to be more of a SGT aimed more toward LMP and super cars. The feeling is we don't need or want another TC class but just on pan car chassis. The class should look different on the track or spectators see it as more of the same and are less interested. True under ROAR rules you wouldn't see these types of bodies on a TC but at a lot of clubs and in TCS you do.

Anyway back to the DB9...I didn't like it at first, but the more I looked at it the more it grew on me and now I find myself liking it.
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Old 03-03-2009, 02:15 PM   #43
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Has anyone read the ROAR Rules for WGT???

http://www.roarracing.com/downloads/...k_addendum.pdf

There is a line that says....bodies deemed unrealistic or out of scale will not be approved....the burden of proof lies with the manufacturer....

It looks like ROAR will not approve these "door-stop" "wedgie" bodies for ROAR races. They need to indeed look like the real thing.

With that being said.....here is the ROAR approved body list

http://www.roarracing.com/approvals/sbody.php

And there isnt a single WGT body on the list......so what bodies will these cars be using at the ROAR nats in a few weeks from now?????

But other then that this new Parma body looks ok....but looks a little "wedgie"
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Old 03-03-2009, 02:28 PM   #44
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Has anyone read the ROAR Rules for WGT???

http://www.roarracing.com/downloads/...k_addendum.pdf

There is a line that says....bodies deemed unrealistic or out of scale will not be approved....the burden of proof lies with the manufacturer....

It looks like ROAR will not approve these "door-stop" "wedgie" bodies for ROAR races. They need to indeed look like the real thing.

With that being said.....here is the ROAR approved body list

http://www.roarracing.com/approvals/sbody.php

And there isnt a single WGT body on the list......so what bodies will these cars be using at the ROAR nats in a few weeks from now?????

But other then that this new Parma body looks ok....but looks a little "wedgie"

I forgot to mention this body IS ROAR legal and will be allowed to run at the nats.
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Old 03-03-2009, 02:35 PM   #45
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I forgot to mention this body IS ROAR legal and will be allowed to run at the nats.
Nicely played....So that would make 1 WGT body approved.

I still dont see how it was approved if the rules say no rear spoiliers are allowed yet this body clearly has a rear spoiler molded into it. Either way its a moot point like Rick said this class is heading down a bad road.
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