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Old 11-17-2003, 10:39 PM   #16
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I agree that you can't lump them all together. The list of 'sponsored' racers is actually very large. I tend to break them into two groups.

There are the elite (professional) drivers such as Cyrul and Kinwald. These drivers tend to be very courteous with drivers of all skill levels. I am also pretty sure that some drivers are intimidated by them on the track and give them a pretty wide berth most times.

The other group of sponsored racers are the ones that either get discounts or a few free items, but are not full-time racers. This is the group that you tend to find some drivers that have an attitude. This is not a condemnation of this whole group, I know many drivers in this group that are courteous and understanding both on track and off track. But, you do sometimes find drivers in this group that feel they need to prove something.

It all comes down to mutual respect on the track. Both drivers have a right to be there. Neither one has MORE right to be there, it is equal. During qualifiers and practice, slower drivers need to move over for fast guys, and fast guys need to wait for an appropriate time to make a pass. In the mains, hold your line, but if you get passed, accept it and move on.

I have no significant sponsorship and tend to be one of the faster drivers at my local track. I have found that I get more respect on the track by being friendly in the pits and not yelling and screaming on the stand. It's harder to hack someone if you consider them a friend. I have seen this in action.

I always try to remind myself that local club races mean absolutely nothing. You don't get sponsored or lose sponsorship based on local performance.
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Old 11-17-2003, 10:41 PM   #17
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I'm a long time racer and current hobby shop/track owner and I hear complaints about "hackers" on a pretty regular basis. They seem to fall into one of two categories.
1. The first is the new or intermediate "hacker". The truth is they aren't good enough to hit you on purpose if they wanted to! They just aren't in very good control of their car. If you're passing a type one driver, it's your responsibility to make a clean pass. If you get hit, it's your fault. As someone said earlier, this can be difficult, because you never know where they are going (and neither do they).
2. The second type is the aggressive driver with some skill. He's good enough to go fast, but lacks the patience and or skill to get around a slower car cleanly. This type often gets accused of taking people out intentionally, but usually, like type one, it's a lack of skill. Few drivers INTEND to hit you, but things happen fast at racing speeds. The people who win races are the ones who have advanced to a level where they can maneuver cleanly through traffic and it doesn't LOOK like they even slowed down.
3. There is a third type of "Hacker" who has the ability run clean and fast, but intentionally taps another fast car out of frustration to get around him. This driver deserves criticism. But this skill level is rare; so before you accuse someone of being a hack, ask yourself if they are really good enough to deserve that! LOL
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Old 11-17-2003, 11:15 PM   #18
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Quote:
This is the group that you tend to find some drivers that have an attitude. This is not a condemnation of this whole group
You find that kind of attitude just as much with drivers who are fast and unsponsored as well. I'm not a sponsored racer currently, but I can hold my own. I'm here to have fun. I race with and am friends with quite a few sponsored racers. I rarely see this kind of attitude from any of them. I completly agree that as a sponsored racer, you represent your sponsor and you actions reflect on them.
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Old 11-18-2003, 08:07 AM   #19
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if you are lapping someone you should tell them well before you are right behind them.

i had some bad experiences (several hundred dollars worth actually) trying pass someone even after telling them they were being lapped
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Old 11-18-2003, 08:19 AM   #20
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Backmarker- very well thought out!! I agree totally. You hit the nail on the head.

I would like to mention one thing on the type 3 hacker- sometimes, when lapping traffic you run into situations where the traffic won't give any space for you to get around. Now, you must be patient, but after 3 or 4 turns and the obviously slower car won't give way, sometimes they might get a little help. This mostly only pertains to tight carpet tracks in my experience, but I think most of the carpet regulars call it the "three and out" rule. Three turns and ig you don't give way to the faster car then you are out.
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Old 11-18-2003, 08:21 AM   #21
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is that the "three laps and then i will take you out" rule or is this a black flag type thing?
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Old 11-18-2003, 09:01 AM   #22
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I think its three turns and then the faster guy has the right to re-adjust the slower car's line through turn #4.
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Old 11-18-2003, 12:34 PM   #23
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OK I got a question then. I posted this on another board and unfortunately it started a flame war and was deleted before a actual answer could be determined......


Lets say that I am the last car on the lead lap ( would mean I am actually having a good day! lol ).

But really, I am the last car on the lead lap. The leader is about 4-5 car lengths behind me some times down to 3-4 car lengths behind me.

Now the question is, is it not ok to race to stay on the lead lap? This is a main, not a heat I am tlaing about.

What is rule of thumb here? This has happend to me several times.

And part two to the question is.....

Once that car comes with in a car length of me I will let him by, just go slightly wide and let him cut in.

Now the problem is I would find myself racing him and holding back from passing him.

Do you understand?
Does this just fall under that category of " it is what it is"


I know this is off the beaten path, and I am sorry for it.
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Old 11-18-2003, 01:04 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by Smalls
OK I got a question then. I posted this on another board and unfortunately it started a flame war and was deleted before a actual answer could be determined......


Lets say that I am the last car on the lead lap ( would mean I am actually having a good day! lol ).

But really, I am the last car on the lead lap. The leader is about 4-5 car lengths behind me some times down to 3-4 car lengths behind me.

Now the question is, is it not ok to race to stay on the lead lap? This is a main, not a heat I am tlaing about.

What is rule of thumb here? This has happend to me several times.

And part two to the question is.....

Once that car comes with in a car length of me I will let him by, just go slightly wide and let him cut in.

Now the problem is I would find myself racing him and holding back from passing him.

Do you understand?
Does this just fall under that category of " it is what it is"


I know this is off the beaten path, and I am sorry for it.
Keep racing and If your holding Him Up , then let Him Go. and finish your race, Youll be in better position than having the leader rub you cuz you just to slow.. Youll feel better about yourself and finish your race with a good feeling and a good run...even if your in the back... WE all know what happends at the start of some races.....
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Old 11-18-2003, 01:09 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by Smalls
OK I got a question then. I posted this on another board and unfortunately it started a flame war and was deleted before a actual answer could be determined......


Lets say that I am the last car on the lead lap ( would mean I am actually having a good day! lol ).

But really, I am the last car on the lead lap. The leader is about 4-5 car lengths behind me some times down to 3-4 car lengths behind me.

Now the question is, is it not ok to race to stay on the lead lap? This is a main, not a heat I am tlaing about.

What is rule of thumb here? This has happend to me several times.

And part two to the question is.....

Once that car comes with in a car length of me I will let him by, just go slightly wide and let him cut in.

Now the problem is I would find myself racing him and holding back from passing him.

Do you understand?
Does this just fall under that category of " it is what it is"


I know this is off the beaten path, and I am sorry for it.
The overall topic here is driver etiquette, so that's not off topic at all. On the Club racing level you'd have to qualfy our guys as "communicators" We do alot of talking over the course of an 8 min. main. My best friend lapped someone Sunday, the lapped car actually proved to be quicker at the end of the run, so my buddy says "do you wanna go around?" The lapped driver responded, responded, "No" This is sometimes all it takes. Other times you have instances that are beyond your control. If I'm leading a main and the guy in front of me is holding me up, I'll wait. But only if the second place car isn't closing on me. If you're costing me time and we're not racing for position, I'll try two corners to pull a Clean Pass. On the Third Strike they're OUTTA THERE!!!

If the leader is 4 car lengths behind, you're not holding him up. When he gets to two cars start thinking about it, but if he can't or won't close that gap, why let him go? If, however, he tries a move when he's close enough, either let him go then and there, or give it up in the next corner. If you pull back up on him, tell him to move it or lose it. If he's holding you up and he dumps, you may end up losing a position or two because of him.
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Old 11-18-2003, 01:17 PM   #26
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so what you are saying is..all sponsored drivers should spend there travel money and enrty fee only to race casualy? just ride around and not be competitive? just be johnny fair play and run the high line and allow everyone to pass at will? his only job is to display his car and hand out free stuff?

who are we to think that because he travelled to the track today that he should be allowed room to pass? who are we to think he shouldn't win? how dare he!

problem is he is better than most of the racers in his class..but he deserves track time like the rest of us vultures. if you see him coming up on you move over. it saves you both alot of time. let him go, try to follow him..see what makes him so fast? go over to his pits and pick his brain for set-up advice..why just complain about him? use him to your advantage..because he represents a comapny means he must be willing to help you off the track. ask him questions..borrow some of his stuff..shake his hand and tell him how you feel..

dont come on here crying like a 5 year old...man up and confront him in person..he may be a nice guy and not realise what he is doing. he made allot of sacrifices to get where he is at ..he puts his pants on one leg at a time..he is human..i bet he is not as bad as you make him out to be? next race make an effort to talk to him.. or at the very least send him an email... peace
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Old 11-18-2003, 01:26 PM   #27
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I find that when racing on-road (not oval) trying to stay on the lead lap is not necessary. With lap times usually in the 9 to 15 second range, you are not going to get back up and catch the leader in most cases. If you REALLY think you have a chance of catching the leader later in the race, keep racing, but be truthful with yourself.

I find that when I am following some drivers I am not able to keep my car 1 or 2 car lengths back and not hit them. In some cases my distance varies between sniffing the exhaust and 10 car lengths during a lap. Different driving lines and leaving room for the car in front to not take me out if they make a mistake can make following closely difficult.

Basically, if it is not for position and the driver behind me has caught me and makes one attempt at a pass I then assume I am holding him up and will make room at the first safe place. There are places on some tracks where I will NEVER let someone pass. Just let them know you are going to let them go and they will be patient with you.

It all comes down to being respectful of each other. You respect the fast guys now and you will get the same respect when you are the fast guy.
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Old 11-18-2003, 01:44 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by gotpez
I find that when racing on-road (not oval) trying to stay on the lead lap is not necessary. With lap times usually in the 9 to 15 second range, you are not going to get back up and catch the leader in most cases. If you REALLY think you have a chance of catching the leader later in the race, keep racing, but be truthful with yourself.

I find that when I am following some drivers I am not able to keep my car 1 or 2 car lengths back and not hit them. In some cases my distance varies between sniffing the exhaust and 10 car lengths during a lap. Different driving lines and leaving room for the car in front to not take me out if they make a mistake can make following closely difficult.

Basically, if it is not for position and the driver behind me has caught me and makes one attempt at a pass I then assume I am holding him up and will make room at the first safe place. There are places on some tracks where I will NEVER let someone pass. Just let them know you are going to let them go and they will be patient with you.

It all comes down to being respectful of each other. You respect the fast guys now and you will get the same respect when you are the fast guy.
Well put gotpez!!! I can also tell you from personal experience the gp means what he says. He's definitely one of the more courteous "fast guys" in our area. And he and I have yielded to one another on more than one occasion, sometimes in the same heat!
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Old 11-18-2003, 02:04 PM   #29
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Sometimes on the same LAP!!!!
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Old 11-18-2003, 02:09 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by gotpez
Sometimes on the same LAP!!!!
Hey I'm sponsored!!!! We aren't that bad are we?!?!! LOL!!!


Well now that I think about it, maybe sometimes we are!!!
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