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Old 02-03-2002, 05:28 PM   #31
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Some of you might like the way that a 4wd f-1 will make the class more popular. But come to think of it if you have a sophisticated 4wd chasis you end up with yet another touring chasis. Its the same, its drives the same except its designed to fit a f-1 body. That dont make it very interesting does it. And talking about 4wd getting more people into the hobby and 2wd too hard to drive issue I agreed with it at first. But then an F103 or anytype of rwd vehicle are actually not much more difficult to drive. I see kids playing with the F103s and doing very well. A Kyosho miniZ is rwd and even beginers can drive it well. You see a 2wd car does take some some adaptation on the driving part but nowadays people even small kids are not DUMB they are actually very clever and take no time at all to learn these things. The popularity of TCs is because they look like real cars and the dominance if this class really kills the other classes.
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Old 02-03-2002, 05:44 PM   #32
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Futureal,
If IRL cars are so hard to drive how come there salaries aren't even half of the crapiest F1 driver makes.

As far as the T-Maxx comments about it not being scale to a monster truck. Do you think F1's have direct drive? Do you think they have a friction plate? Tamiya just makes that stuff spo the car drives scale same with the T-Maxx.
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Old 02-03-2002, 08:20 PM   #33
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Potato: I have no idea if an IRL or CART car is easier to drive, since I've never driven either, let alone a Formula 1 car.

HOWEVER, you put the three cars next to each other on a road course with the normal crew: pit crew, technicians, driver and support staff. At the end of the day, which driver has the easiest job? If you don't say F1, you're on something.

Fangio: Money isn't everything, you know. But actually, their salaries aren't as high because F1 is, well, the F1 of motorsports. (heh heh) The salaries of F1 drivers have NOTHING to do with the skill required and EVERYTHING to do with the popularity of the sport. Flying an F-16 is a lot tougher than driving an F1 car. And yet Michael Schumacher makes 100 times that of an average USAF pilot. What's wrong with the picture? Nothing, it's economics.

And for the record, I never said "harder to drive" was better at all...
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Old 02-03-2002, 09:04 PM   #34
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Juicy, juicy, stuff here!

Jimmyd: you've almost got a point about it being just another TC class. You say its just been stuffed under an F1 body. To that I say, cool! You make it sound as though thats easy. But if it were easy, someone will have done it already. If its just like the TC class, maybe F1 will soon enjoy the same success as the TC class!

I sound like a broken record, but...............if it makes the class more popular..............bring it on!!!.

As for which one is harder, F1 or CART? Hell, I can't drive either, so I say what difference does it make?

I'm a F1 fan who hates CART/IRL, and even I don't see any reason to pick which one is harder.
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Old 02-03-2002, 09:52 PM   #35
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I am an F1 fan as well, though I don't hate CART or IRL. I rarely watch either series, but I try to catch a few races each season just to see what's going on.

The only thing that keeps me from being an absolute diehard F1 fan is the dominance from year-to-year of a single team or car. In the past few years there hasn't been a real, true, honest-to-God battle between two teams for the top spot. I don't hate M. Schumacher or Ferrari or anything, I would just like to see a bit more parity. The problem is you can't do that without restrictions, and when you add too many restrictions, what do you get? The IRL.

Anyway, I am just laying that out so that the Tamiya and F1 fanboys here (heh) don't think I am trying to sit there and rip on F1 drivers. I doubt I could pilot any full-sized open-wheel racecar, period. I am just stating facts...
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Old 02-03-2002, 10:16 PM   #36
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futureal: you just might get the parity you want this year. Or at least thats the general belief. But then again, people believed the Rams would destroy the Patriots, and we all see how that turned out. So it might be just another "one team dominates" F1 season, but I'll still be watching. One which ever channel its on THIS year! I wish someone would just get the rights in the US and keep them for a couple of years!
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Old 02-03-2002, 10:24 PM   #37
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Futureal, this is kinda off topic but... is an F-16 really more difficult to pilot than it is to drive an F1 fast? When I think about it, F1 is pretty amazing. 4G corners, very rough rides, high temperatures, sustained heartrates of 180 beats per minute... some people consider F1 drivers 'superhuman.' They lose on average 4.5 lbs over the course of one race, and half a gallon of body fluid! It really is amazing what they can do. It's the same with F-16 pilots, but I wouldn't consider all of them to be on the same level as the top F1 drivers. They all have to be very good to make it in as a pilot, but in F1, you can't just be very good, you have to be the best. Of course anyone can drive an F1 car, but very few can drive an F1 at its limits. I just thought this was an interesting tangent to the discussion. What do you think?
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Old 02-04-2002, 12:15 AM   #38
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I could almost assure you that a fighter jet is more difficult to pilot than it is to drive an F1 car fast. The amount of knowledge required to even operate a fighter jet dwarfs what you would need to know to drive an F1 car fast.

Multi-G situations, increased heartrates and so on would all be characteristics of flying a jet, all at least matching F1 levels, if not moreso. Obviously piloting a jet in a straight line is not as taxing on a body, but you get what I mean.

When we're talking "the best" to be an F1 driver, we think of Schumacher et al. But with the proper training and conditioning, akin to what pilots go through, I do not doubt that more people could drive at that level as well. The thing about being a racecar driver is, you can't simply go to school for it and immediately land a ride in the car you want (e.g. F1) to gain experience. You can go to a driving school, and start racing, but you have to go from level to level to level to get anywhere. Arriving at the F1 level requires not just skill, but luck, and a bit of money to get you started. If they had a school that taught real F1 driving (think Air Force academy but for racing) that taught you driving from the ground up, ending with thousands of hours in an F1 simulator followed by real track time against real opponents in full-fledged F1 cars, we'd see many more capable drivers.

And once again, in real acrobatic fighter jet situations, I would believe the same statement: you can't just be good, you have to be the best. If those guys aren't the best, they aren't up there. Uncle Sam doesn't hand over 10-million-dollar fighter jets to any schmuck who can fly the simulator...

Not that any of this actually matters, of course.
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Old 02-04-2002, 05:31 AM   #39
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I find it quite interesting the debate that has arisen from Tamiya's latest F-1 4WD chassis. I have 2 F103s and 2 F103Ls and love them. However, I have to admit that the F201 is a rather amazing piece of engineering and for that simple reason I will be buying 1 (if not two). If, as some of you say, the chassis does not become popular, then it will only be better for those of us out there who love to collect Tamiya kits.

I suspect however that this new chassis may be the start of something quite revolutionary. Just think back to the TA-01 and see how that spawned the entire Touring Car thing which has gripped us all.

Anyway, that's just my 2 cents worth. Can't wait for this amazing kit to hit the shelves. Hopefully, Tamiya will not only be releasing the Ferrari (which I presume will have to be under licence from Mattel - adding to the kit cost), but other F-1 models as well. How about a BMW Williams and/or a Maclaren? I'm sure the new Toyota F-1 is a surebet too given Tamiya is largely spurned by its local market.


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Old 02-04-2002, 08:54 AM   #40
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Kiwikid: I don't think anyone here thinks it "wont" be popular. Heck even the critics here admit that it has a good chance to raise the popularity of the class.

And heck, even the critics here have said they will buy one dispite their own criticism. When you can sell something to even those who criticise your product(a' la Microsoft)then you know your doing something right!
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Old 02-05-2002, 09:10 AM   #41
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I hope that they also add a new line of Protoype "Le Mans"type bodies, to this chassis
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Old 02-05-2002, 10:13 AM   #42
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cartix: I hadn't even thought about that. I, being a diehard F1 fan, prefer the F1 bodies, but I hope they do come out with good LeMans bodies for those of you who like them.
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Old 02-05-2002, 11:02 AM   #43
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i would not expect to see any lemans bodies...the classis no longer in the tcs series....
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Old 02-05-2002, 11:36 AM   #44
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I think the true test of what happens in F1 will be on the club track level. I am fortunate that the tracks in my area all run F1. I have spoken with representatives of each track and their plan is to allow the 4wd and 2wd cars to race together in the same class. I think we will see some interesting strategy play out when the two types of cars compete against each other. I doubt it will be as dramatic as the with GT, GTS and LMP racing on the same track, but keep some things in mind. All of the clubs that I have heard of that race F1, race longer mains than sedan. I think there is little doubt that the drivetrain on the F201 will not help you if you need to make time. Maybe, just maybe, you can get the 4wd car to go as fast as the 2wd car. On a medium or low traction surface, the 4wd car will have the advantage of being able to carry more speed into a turn and accelerate faster out of a turn. But, can you make time? I bet not. I race 2wd F1 and it is my favorite class. If the new Tamiya car gets more people racing in the class, bring it on! That's the best thing that could happen. When the F201 drivers get hooked on F1 and are tired of getting spanked all over the track by the 2wd guys, they will switch to 2wd and find out how much fun it is. This means more cars, hopups and spare parts get sold. Any way you slice it, it's good for the class. I hope the aftermarket companies jump on the F201 bandwagon. If they make all kinds of cool stuff for it, it will really help the car sell. One thing that will kill it faster than anything is lack of gearing options. If Kimbrough or someone else doesn't make a 64P and 48P spurgear for the car, I think this will really limit it's popularity unless there is a high enough internal gear ratio so you can effectively use Tamiya's pinions. I was pretty bummed when I first saw that the car was 4wd. I never once thought that I would no buy one, though. Now, I'm getting pretty excited to buy one and see how it does compared to my 2wd F1 cars. Hopefully Big T will do some advertising and we'll see some write ups in the rc mags.
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Old 02-05-2002, 06:35 PM   #45
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Why havent I thought about that before? Good point psycho.
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