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Old 09-17-2009, 01:18 AM   #301
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Originally Posted by mangoman View Post
Thanks for the setups Randy!

Any idea what approximate gearing they were using with the mod setups?
Also i just noticed they are using the dual mode, is there any particular reason for that?
Dual mode is great with mods. And when you're in dual mode, the gearing becomes less sensitive in 12th scale, hence the need to suggest gearing is not required. Just temp accordingly...
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Old 09-17-2009, 01:55 AM   #302
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Dual mode is great with mods. And when you're in dual mode, the gearing becomes less sensitive in 12th scale, hence the need to suggest gearing is not required. Just temp accordingly...
Okkie thanks cyanyde, hope to finally have some 1s lipos VERY SOON
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Old 09-17-2009, 07:00 AM   #303
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Default Testing of RS and Booster.

I did some testing tonight with my RS Pro and Hobbycity booster.
I can confirm the following.

1) Lipo voltage cutout only works with ESC switch ON

2) A big increase in current consumption from the booster when ESC is switched ON

3) Two switches are needed or battery must be disconnected to power down the ESC / receiver. Read down the bottom for more on this one.

My setup is SMC 4900mAh battery, RS Pro, Hobbycity booster, Spektrum SR3520 receiver, Futaba S9650 servo.

Attached is the test setup. Battery replaced with variable power supply. Right multimeter is the input voltage (battery), middle is the output voltage of the booster, left is the output current of the booster.

The below results were with the above setup. The servo was connected but was unloaded.

Test 1 Booster ON, ESC OFF
Input Voltage (Battery) 3.7v
Booster Output Voltage 5.10v
Booster Output Current 145mA

Test 2 Booster ON, ESC ON
Input Voltage (Battery) 3.7v
Booster Output Voltage 5.10v
Booster Output Current 335mA - +170mA over switch OFF !!!

Test 3 Booster ON, ESC OFF Motor run
Input Voltage (Battery) 2.8 to 4.20v
Booster Output Voltage 5.10v
Booster Output Current approx 160mA (slight fluctuation, could be the LEDs)
NO Lipo cutout !!!

Test 4 Booster ON, ESC ON Motor run
Input Voltage (Battery) 2.8 to 4.20v
Booster Output Voltage 5.10v
Booster Output Current approx 350mA (slight fluctuation, could be the LEDs)
YES - Lipo cutout

Test 5. Booster On, ESC ON - Vary input voltage (no servo connected)
Input Voltage (Battery) 3 to 4.20v
Booster Output Voltage 5.10v
Booster Output Current varied from 150mA @ 4.2v to 280mA @ 3v. Interesting
Something interesting going on with the BEC / motor drive circuit in the ESC. Would love to look at the circuit.

Test 6 Power Booster from external supply, No battery input, ESC switch OFF
Input Voltage (Battery) disconnected
Booster Input Voltage 3.6v
Booster Output Voltage 5.10v
Booster Output Current 136mA (no throttle)
Booster Output Current 160mA (full throttle) extra current used by LEDs?

Test 6 Power Booster from external supply, No battery input, ESC switch OFF
Input Voltage (Battery) disconnected
Booster Input Voltage 3.6v
Booster Output Voltage 5.10v
Booster Output Current 136mA (no throttle)
Booster Output Current 300mA (full throttle) AND motor is getting power.

Conclusion: With the ESC turned ON it will consume up to 150mA extra current. I did see a maximum of 700mA with servo loaded so the Hobbycity booster should be up to the task.
I also saw a lot of ripple on the output voltage of the booster when the servo was moved fast lock-to-lock, so I need to investigate extra capacitors on the output of the booster.

Switches: You will need either two switches or wire the booster and ESC up to a Double Pole switch.
With that battery connected and booster switch ON (ESC OFF) the whole system is powered. Car will move from transmitter input.
With that battery connected and ESC switch ON (Booster OFF) the whole system is powered. The car will move if the battery voltage is higher enough to enable the receiver.
The only way to de-power the system is to either turn both booster and ESC off OR disconnect the battery.

Stay tuned for more testing.
Attached Thumbnails
Tekin RS/RS PRO on 1s Lipo Q&A-test-setup.jpg  
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Old 09-17-2009, 07:27 AM   #304
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GWH74 View Post
I did some testing tonight with my RS Pro and Hobbycity booster.
I can confirm the following.

1) Lipo voltage cutout only works with ESC switch ON

2) A big increase in current consumption from the booster when ESC is switched ON

3) Two switches are needed or battery must be disconnected to power down the ESC / receiver. Read down the bottom for more on this one.

My setup is SMC 4900mAh battery, RS Pro, Hobbycity booster, Spektrum SR3520 receiver, Futaba S9650 servo.

Attached is the test setup. Battery replaced with variable power supply. Right multimeter is the input voltage (battery), middle is the output voltage of the booster, left is the output current of the booster.

The below results were with the above setup. The servo was connected but was unloaded.

Test 1 – Booster ON, ESC OFF
Input Voltage (Battery) – 3.7v
Booster Output Voltage – 5.10v
Booster Output Current – 145mA

Test 2 – Booster ON, ESC ON
Input Voltage (Battery) – 3.7v
Booster Output Voltage – 5.10v
Booster Output Current – 335mA - +170mA over switch OFF !!!

Test 3 – Booster ON, ESC OFF – Motor run
Input Voltage (Battery) – 2.8 to 4.20v
Booster Output Voltage – 5.10v
Booster Output Current – approx 160mA (slight fluctuation, could be the LEDs)
NO Lipo cutout !!!

Test 4 – Booster ON, ESC ON – Motor run
Input Voltage (Battery) – 2.8 to 4.20v
Booster Output Voltage – 5.10v
Booster Output Current – approx 350mA (slight fluctuation, could be the LEDs)
YES - Lipo cutout

Test 5. Booster On, ESC ON - Vary input voltage (no servo connected)
Input Voltage (Battery) – 3 to 4.20v
Booster Output Voltage – 5.10v
Booster Output Current – varied from 150mA @ 4.2v to 280mA @ 3v. Interesting
Something interesting going on with the BEC / motor drive circuit in the ESC. Would love to look at the circuit.

Test 6 – Power Booster from external supply, No battery input, ESC switch OFF
Input Voltage (Battery) – disconnected
Booster Input Voltage – 3.6v
Booster Output Voltage – 5.10v
Booster Output Current – 136mA (no throttle)
Booster Output Current – 160mA (full throttle) – extra current used by LEDs?

Test 6 – Power Booster from external supply, No battery input, ESC switch OFF
Input Voltage (Battery) – disconnected
Booster Input Voltage – 3.6v
Booster Output Voltage – 5.10v
Booster Output Current – 136mA (no throttle)
Booster Output Current – 300mA (full throttle) – AND motor is getting power.

Conclusion: With the ESC turned ON it will consume up to 150mA extra current. I did see a maximum of 700mA with servo loaded so the Hobbycity booster should be up to the task.
I also saw a lot of ripple on the output voltage of the booster when the servo was moved fast lock-to-lock, so I need to investigate extra capacitors on the output of the booster.

Switches: You will need either two switches or wire the booster and ESC up to a Double Pole switch.
With that battery connected and booster switch ON (ESC OFF) the whole system is powered. Car will move from transmitter input.
With that battery connected and ESC switch ON (Booster OFF) the whole system is powered. The car will move if the battery voltage is higher enough to enable the receiver.
The only way to de-power the system is to either turn both booster and ESC off OR disconnect the battery.

Stay tuned for more testing.
Excellent work!

Yeh the Hobbycity / TQ boosters are very noisy... but some how the normally sensative rx adn servos dont seem to mind that. I have a novak smart boost here, but I had some serious issues with it kicking into its own "LiPo cut off" and stalling out the car. On big throttle changes. Cleaner power, and more of it, but thse glitches I had wtih it are too big to ignore.

Friday I will be testing all day at the track with both my Hobby City and my Novak booster with the Tekin.

THe one thing I need help with is finding what preset timing is in my Orion Vortex V2 Race motors I run... they have hashmarks on the can but I just dont know how I can figure out what real timing is on the motor at this point to setup the RS properly. Anyone know if by looking down the inside of the motor and eyeballing where the Hall sensors are in relation to the 3 coils would help ID what timing is being applied? at 0 timing should the hall sensors be dead center of the 3 coils?
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Old 09-17-2009, 07:47 AM   #305
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I have never used one but I got turned off by the novak smart boost by the way they pulse the output voltage. This is suppose to let your feel the lipo cut-out through the servo speed / feel. That's until this causes an oops and you hit the boards.
I was in the process of writing the software for a lipo flasher. Mount a ultra bright LED on the pod and it flashes as the voltage get to a set level. Aka rain light of F1 car. Then later add throttle control so that it limits throttle travel as voltage hits the lower limit. Then there is only one step away from added wheel sensors and having TRACTION CONTROL - That comes under "driver aid" which means it is band
I might have to get this project back on track for all those people that don't have one of these really cool Tekin's with 1-cell lipo cut-out.
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Old 09-17-2009, 08:09 AM   #306
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ahh I didnt know about the novak pulsed voltage and the whole slower servo thing to let you know you are running out of juice... that seems odd.

Anyway I just answered my own question. I have a Tekin Redline motor here and the vortex that I race with, I set the Tekin to 0 Deg and then pulled the rotor to see where the hall sensors lined up wtih the differnet phases of the motor. The hall sensors at 0 Deg should line up with the leading edge of the phase in question. Adding timing moves the snensor ahead of the phase and either into the dead zone between them, or into the trailing part of the preceeding phase.

The very crude images below indicate this. Note the red lines indicate the leading edge of a phase. The Green rings are the outter ring of coils, the black ring is the sensor ring at the back of the motor. The black boxes are the Hall sensors. And the green boxes are the gaps between the phases.

The images are at 0 Deg and at 10Deg (roughly). This should give an idea of how to at least eye ball the true 0 point on motors that dont have actual degress defined but just hash marks.
Attached Thumbnails
Tekin RS/RS PRO on 1s Lipo Q&A-0deg.gif   Tekin RS/RS PRO on 1s Lipo Q&A-10deg.gif  
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Old 09-17-2009, 10:59 AM   #307
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GWH74 View Post
I have never used one but I got turned off by the novak smart boost by the way they pulse the output voltage. This is suppose to let your feel the lipo cut-out through the servo speed / feel. That's until this causes an oops and you hit the boards.
I was in the process of writing the software for a lipo flasher. Mount a ultra bright LED on the pod and it flashes as the voltage get to a set level. Aka rain light of F1 car. Then later add throttle control so that it limits throttle travel as voltage hits the lower limit. Then there is only one step away from added wheel sensors and having TRACTION CONTROL - That comes under "driver aid" which means it is band
I might have to get this project back on track for all those people that don't have one of these really cool Tekin's with 1-cell lipo cut-out.
Would a cap in the reciever prevent the booster causing problems and if so how big does it need to be?

I lost power during a meeting and crashed heavily.

It only takes the power to stop for a fraction of a second with Spektrum and the system will then have to 're-find' the signal before working normally.

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Old 09-17-2009, 02:11 PM   #308
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Both Mike Dumas and Donny Lia were running dual mode with 3.5's and 4.5's respectively in 1/12 1s mod and were some of the few not having dumping issues...
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Old 09-17-2009, 04:33 PM   #309
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Randy, got any 17.5/1S lipo 1/12th setups from the IIC?
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Old 09-17-2009, 04:46 PM   #310
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Randy posted it 1 page before, I know it says 13.5 on Kenny's 1/12th but I think he only ran 17.5 at the iic.
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Old 09-17-2009, 04:54 PM   #311
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Both Mike Dumas and Donny Lia were running dual mode with 3.5's and 4.5's respectively in 1/12 1s mod and were some of the few not having dumping issues...
Sorry if I missed it in a earlier post, but where those two racers on boosters or rxr packs?
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Old 09-17-2009, 07:49 PM   #312
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Sorry if I missed it in a earlier post, but where those two racers on boosters or rxr packs?
dumas was running a rx pack. i don't remember what donny's car looked like
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Old 09-17-2009, 08:23 PM   #313
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dumas was running a rx pack. i don't remember what donny's car looked like
I'm realy thinking that if your running a 1S with any speed control you have to be using a rxr pack over a booster. It just seems like you can kind of fool the sc into thinking it has a higher voltage supplied but when you start to actually have to pull some power out of it, the flaws in the booster begin to show. The other problem that can arrise from under powered electronics is the sc can start to produce higher operating temps as the circuitry is trying to compensate for the lower voltage. I would consider wiring in the rxr pack into the sc over the plug right into the rcvr.
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Old 09-17-2009, 08:33 PM   #314
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Originally Posted by Johnny Wishbone View Post
I'm realy thinking that if your running a 1S with any speed control you have to be using a rxr pack over a booster. It just seems like you can kind of fool the sc into thinking it has a higher voltage supplied but when you start to actually have to pull some power out of it, the flaws in the booster begin to show. The other problem that can arrise from under powered electronics is the sc can start to produce higher operating temps as the circuitry is trying to compensate for the lower voltage. I would consider wiring in the rxr pack into the sc over the plug right into the rcvr.
make sense. I will have to try that the next time I am at the track. i can tell you alot of the 1s racers converted from booster to rx pack at the iic. it was thought to be faster and maybe has something to do with running the speedo in the on position and the rx in the on position as well. that ways the speedo is getting power for the control circuit from both rx pack and main battery.
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Old 09-17-2009, 09:12 PM   #315
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The RX pack isn't going to back feed and give the motor more power.

I feel it's faster only because it will prevent ANY power from being taken away from the motor. If you run a booster there is a small amount of power being used for the receiver and servo, while minor it's a difference especially in mod where they're pushing it as it is.

If I had the choice I'd go rx pack simply to keep my servo and receiver at a higher voltage for optimal performance.
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