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Old 02-02-2009, 04:28 PM   #31
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have 3 onroad tracks and no offroad tracks. kinda see what is popular here. as long as companies have TCs they need to sell as they have mouths to feed, and folks still keep chuckin 4-500bux for em and thus magazines have to give them 9/10 reviews. people will still buy.

R (prayin for electric offroad resurgence)
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Old 02-03-2009, 05:21 AM   #32
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Cost should not have anything to do with it, but racers drive the cost up.... If you are joe club racer and your running new meats every race day then your to blame as are you budies at the club. The only reason people buy new tires is to try and go faster then the budy next to them who just bought new tires..... If people could excersie self control and enjoy racing within there budget the cost need not be as high. We try at our club to encourage sensible spending.... Just because there is a 009 chassis out does not make your 008 obsolete nore your 007.... If you can handle a new chassis every 6-12 months then great but dont kid your self into thinking that its a nessacity. Majority of any of our racing budgets should be on tires, motors and batts a close second. But be reasonable about tires if your in a smaller club talk amoungst your selves and come to some sort of gentlemans agreement that you run a set or 2 max for a race sereies. I know easier said then done.

Much of the crying about cost comes from guys that are trying to win at all costs, and never realize that there skillz or commitment to the hobby are lacking. Personally my spending days are long behind me, with 2kids and another on the way im lucky enough to get out to my bi-weekly race sereis. Im sure not dropping a dime on a new 009 anytime soon, i also realize that more track time would be a better investment then a fresh set of tires. My performance or lack of it comes from a lack of commitment and skillz(which would sharpen if ever practiced!)Admitting it is your first step to correcting it

TC chassis design is starting to platue and soon it will be as boring as pan car designs that barely changed in 20years. When guys realize that a .1mm change on chassis thickness does not warranent 600$ then people will see that TC is not any more expencive then pan car. Tires is the common issue between the two. Its a consumable that cost money as does motors and batts. Problem is in TC people make chassis swapping as common as buying new tires... Its totally unessary. Every single time a guy buys the latest chassis they claim to be faster... i have yet to see data from anyone proving they are any faster..... In fact i have seen a few times where guys went back to the older chassis and went faster.... The new bearing probably hold most of the new found speed if there is any! LOL
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Old 02-03-2009, 06:20 AM   #33
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Cost should not have anything to do with it, but racers drive the cost up.... If you are joe club racer and your running new meats every race day then your to blame as are you budies at the club. The only reason people buy new tires is to try and go faster then the budy next to them who just bought new tires..... If people could excersie self control and enjoy racing within there budget the cost need not be as high. We try at our club to encourage sensible spending.... Just because there is a 009 chassis out does not make your 008 obsolete nore your 007.... If you can handle a new chassis every 6-12 months then great but dont kid your self into thinking that its a nessacity. Majority of any of our racing budgets should be on tires, motors and batts a close second. But be reasonable about tires if your in a smaller club talk amoungst your selves and come to some sort of gentlemans agreement that you run a set or 2 max for a race sereies. I know easier said then done.

Much of the crying about cost comes from guys that are trying to win at all costs, and never realize that there skillz or commitment to the hobby are lacking. Personally my spending days are long behind me, with 2kids and another on the way im lucky enough to get out to my bi-weekly race sereis. Im sure not dropping a dime on a new 009 anytime soon, i also realize that more track time would be a better investment then a fresh set of tires. My performance or lack of it comes from a lack of commitment and skillz(which would sharpen if ever practiced!)Admitting it is your first step to correcting it

TC chassis design is starting to platue and soon it will be as boring as pan car designs that barely changed in 20years. When guys realize that a .1mm change on chassis thickness does not warranent 600$ then people will see that TC is not any more expencive then pan car. Tires is the common issue between the two. Its a consumable that cost money as does motors and batts. Problem is in TC people make chassis swapping as common as buying new tires... Its totally unessary. Every single time a guy buys the latest chassis they claim to be faster... i have yet to see data from anyone proving they are any faster..... In fact i have seen a few times where guys went back to the older chassis and went faster.... The new bearing probably hold most of the new found speed if there is any! LOL
Well, my question is this: what if part of the fun is to be the fastest and most competitive in the hobby? I mean that is what leads people to buy a whole bunch of tires and whatnot just to be faster. I am guilty myself. Part of the hobby is not only being part of a club race, but seeing my laurels pay off after spending so much time dialing my car in, so I can be competitive at my track.

I think people cry because they have so many goals they would like to accomplish and the rising costs (due to the exchange rate and cheaper dollar value) is what's getting in the way. I know the common sense answer would be to find another hobby if they feel this is too expensive, but in actuality, this can be a very affordable hobby in terms of racing and getting the speed demon out of you. Real road racing is thousands more expensive.

I do not complain about the costs since I think everything is reasonably priced for what you get in terms of fun. The things I complain about is what you nailed: new chassis does not a faster car make. Xray is super guilty of this for example. I think they are great cars, but the different versions do not warrant the hefty price tag when only a couple things were changed on it. Not to dog on the car, but I think things like that are a bit ridiculous and really thwart newcomers to the hobby when they see prices like that. Granted they don't have to start off with a Ferrari when a Porsche would do, but in reality, think about it, if there is a top quality car where almost everyone at the track is running the car, don't you think the newcomer would be swayed to get the same awesome car everyone else is running?

I am not disputing anyone's beliefs about the hobby, just adding another perspective to think about, when people mention the expense of the hobby.
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Old 02-03-2009, 06:29 AM   #34
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. but seeing my laurels pay off after spending so much time dialing my car in, so I can be competitive at my track.
I agree at some point you need to spend but i think you nailed it right there. Spending time on the car is the number one thing to be spending on...


I also agree its tuff to tell a noob get the low end car when we all run the high end car. But again it comes down to reality, so many guys claim things to be faster then they really are. Our club hot shot proved that his driving was to thank for his success when he swapped his 008 for a cyclone-S on race nite to finish a very very close second place. This was done with kit setup, set of race tires and a gear ratio change. No practice no 600$ in hop ups, just a 150$ TC competing where he would have competed with his 008. Proving that TC does not need to be expensive.
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Old 02-03-2009, 07:48 AM   #35
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YES, YES, YES, YES, YES!!!

BUT, this is not just a Touring Car thing, or an RC anything, it IS a MONEY EVERYTHING, or the Economy for those they have their blinders on.

Here is a small list of some things that have been on the decline for the last 5-15 years. There may have been small pockets of increases from time to time, but overall, these items have been in decline:

RC Airplanes
RC Off-Road
RC On-Road
Automotive Aftermarket
Drag Racing
Formula and Indy Car Racing
Computer Sales
Music Sales
Movie Ticket Sales (overall tickets - not $$$)
Home Sales
Personal Income
Household Income
Family Vacations
Personal Savings
Personal Sports - Soccer, Softball, etc...
Personal Time
Church Attendance
Healthy Eating habits

I think you get the idea.
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Old 02-03-2009, 08:18 AM   #36
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Brushless motors and Lipo batteries are a HUGE leap forward to making TC racing more affordable and accessible to all. There is now more power and run time available to everyone. This also equates to less time spent on managing Nimh batteries and maintaining brushed motors.
In a nutshell, this is what brought my back to onroad touring (and r/c in general). And the great group of guys at our local track.
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Old 02-03-2009, 08:47 AM   #37
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I have a trf415msxx, its plenty good enough for my ability. I don't see the need for a 416we, (or an mre for that matter) it's just a "look good at the club" thing to me.

I dont have the latest and greatest of anything, even my esc is 2 or 3 seasons old, the newest thing is probably the one set of ep4600 cells I have, yet I can put the car in the A most of the time at club meetings.

The last items I got for my 415 were a set of foams as mine were down to the rim and a new shell to replace one that was 2 or 3 seasons old.

Unless your laptimes are 0.5 or so between fastest and average and your lap times are uber consistant, why buy new stuff?

The cost of racing touring is definately offputting. But it need not be with the right mentality.
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Old 02-03-2009, 09:03 AM   #38
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Magazines are dead & buried. Nobody cares what they think or say.
with the advent of the internet does anybody really read them anymore?
except maybe the kids lured by the professor-hoochie-mamas in XRC
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Old 02-03-2009, 09:08 AM   #39
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Is this class gaining or losing popularity to other classes? In my area it almost dies except for the winter months while off road stays strong all year long.
my guess - like any segment of the car section of the hobby, it's going through a phase. I remember when on-road pan cars were the only thing, they lost out some to off-road buggies, then dirt oval was the rage, pretty soon 4wd dirt was the hot thing, then on-road started coming back strong becasue of TCs, then everyone HAD to have a nitro, then mini's were the thing, now everyone's going back to electric because of brushless and lipo.... round and around we go and where we stop nobody knows
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Old 02-03-2009, 10:35 AM   #40
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my guess - like any segment of the car section of the hobby, it's going through a phase. I remember when on-road pan cars were the only thing, they lost out some to off-road buggies, then dirt oval was the rage, pretty soon 4wd dirt was the hot thing, then on-road started coming back strong becasue of TCs, then everyone HAD to have a nitro, then mini's were the thing, now everyone's going back to electric because of brushless and lipo.... round and around we go and where we stop nobody knows
In my opinion, I think electrics are going to stay for a good long while, namely because of the rising petrol prices (after they started declining). In my humble opinion and based on what I have seen thus far, Nitro has not really advanced all that much in terms of technology. Still the same overall engine design with a few more ports here and there, etc. The electric scene has VASTLY changed from last I remembered it when I was on my hiatus from the hobby about 5 years ago now. Where the electric scene has vastly evolved, Nitro still looks exactly the same. However, I will not discount the 1:5 scale cars as they have evolved quite a bit from my Sportsline model from 2004.

Based on the current times and the subsequent days of hardship with the world economy and soon to be higher petrol prices, I think electric cars will remain the "fad" a bit longer than the other genres. Plus who likes driving sedans with holes everywhere on the body? Might as well copy the 8th scale designed bodies where the engine sticks out and gets ample cooling, along with the fuel tank for quicker pit stops. Plus the bodies look way cooler and have more potential for awesome GT classes.

Summary: electric genre is going to stay for a really long time. The technology for electrics is ever evolving day by day and becoming more and more innovative as days pass. Nitro has been stale for quite a bit and you still need "swiss-cheese" bodies. 1:5 scale cars are evolving quite well, but still the same, more or less.

This is just my opinion.
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Old 02-03-2009, 01:17 PM   #41
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Great observation HarryHere in So Cal from offroad to onroad Rc racing is alive an wellonroad nitro need more permanent tracks in my opinion....
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Old 02-03-2009, 01:30 PM   #42
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Great observation HarryHere in So Cal from offroad to onroad Rc racing is alive an wellonroad nitro need more permanent tracks in my opinion....
I should have added, "I really do not understand how Nitro cars and engines still cost so much based on age old technology unchanged for the most part, since 5+ years now."

But I think that may cause some issues, despite it being my opinion.
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Old 02-03-2009, 02:54 PM   #43
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I should have added, "I really do not understand how Nitro cars and engines still cost so much based on age old technology unchanged for the most part, since 5+ years now."

But I think that may cause some issues, despite it being my opinion.
Doesn't make sense to me either....
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Old 02-03-2009, 03:51 PM   #44
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I should have added, "I really do not understand how Nitro cars and engines still cost so much based on age old technology unchanged for the most part, since 5+ years now."

But I think that may cause some issues, despite it being my opinion.
the RTR engines are pretty cheap comparatively, and gotten cheaper over the years, while the full-out race engines have held ground and even gotten more expensive. but that's probably due to ongoing development work and the lack of sales comparative to RTR engines.
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Old 02-03-2009, 04:38 PM   #45
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I should have added, "I really do not understand how Nitro cars and engines still cost so much based on age old technology unchanged for the most part, since 5+ years now."

But I think that may cause some issues, despite it being my opinion.


Probably the cost of commodities , FX rates etc... has driven up the cost of engines... The Euro has risen somewhat over the past few years, so has the cost of metal, though most of the prices has burst.
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