R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 09-01-2006, 06:18 PM   #46
Tech Elite
 
Warren Weaver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: NASCAR COUNTRY
Posts: 2,479
Trader Rating: 47 (100%+)
Default

just remember if i wasnt for ernie we all wouldnt have what we have today
__________________
R1 WURKS-AWESOMATIX USA-LRP-BITTYDESIGN-TQ WIRE-PROTOTYPE RACING-SWEEP RACING-TXDSKINGRAPHIX-HOBMAX-THE RUG-TEAM EZDUZIT
R.I.P. MY FRIEND JDUB MISSED BUT NEVER FORGOTTEN
Warren Weaver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2006, 06:37 PM   #47
Tech Champion
 
John Tag's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Huntersville, NC
Posts: 8,925
Trader Rating: 42 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren Weaver
just remember if i wasnt for ernie we all wouldnt have what we have today
Exactally... I remember as a kid going to BIR and seeing Trinity in a back room behind a drivers stand when I just got into slot cars and RC. To see what Trinity,Reedy,Associated and Losi and others have done over the many years is great for this hobby. Without them pushing the competitive edge racing would be nowhere what it is now..

Just like the "3" ya may not like him but we all know he was a major person in the sport...

Just my 2 cents..
__________________
www.express-motorsports.net for all your motor needs
Multi time National Champions,Reedy Champs,Vegas Champs,Birds, Champs,[email protected]

Team Associated-Express Motorsports-Trinity-Reflex Racing-A Main Hobbies-ProtekRC
John Tag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2006, 06:38 PM   #48
Tech Elite
 
Warren Weaver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: NASCAR COUNTRY
Posts: 2,479
Trader Rating: 47 (100%+)
Default

WELL SAID TAG
__________________
R1 WURKS-AWESOMATIX USA-LRP-BITTYDESIGN-TQ WIRE-PROTOTYPE RACING-SWEEP RACING-TXDSKINGRAPHIX-HOBMAX-THE RUG-TEAM EZDUZIT
R.I.P. MY FRIEND JDUB MISSED BUT NEVER FORGOTTEN
Warren Weaver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2006, 06:39 PM   #49
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Durham, NC
Posts: 313
Default

The local track that I am going to run this winter has said thaey will allow the Novak 13.5 in stock but we also are looking at running a separate brushless class. I am going to probably try the 13.5 but I also have about 5 stock motors sitting in my tool box, and that is after I have sold a few. The reason I am looking at brushless is just so I can relax at the track, it may be slower than an Express stock( I see you lurking Tag ) but heck, with the fastest motor I am not going to make the A unless only 10 people show up so I am not worrying about it just takes a little stress off.
tarheelquality is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2006, 07:06 PM   #50
Tech Elite
 
olhipster1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Asgard
Posts: 3,994
Trader Rating: 98 (100%+)
Send a message via Yahoo to olhipster1
Default thumbs up

thumbs up...
Tag and WW

I do agree...the E man has been a great contribution to the hobby.
who knows what would have happened to it with guys not doing their thing..

but as all things do...changes and evolution occur...so let's make 'em happen..and promote them. And we can all keep this going on .....bring tears my self......Vote foe' me come next election..

but seriously ....I'm not knocking anyone...just sharing thoughts and opinions... Let's keep racing.....Cuummbaaayaa....cumbaayaa...
olhipster1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2006, 07:47 PM   #51
Tech Addict
 
swopemike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 526
Trader Rating: 6 (100%+)
Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by ErnieP
Hi swopemike....how to answer this "politically correct". Saying something is 3 turn or 3.5 turn etc etc. Since every dyno is different and there are so many load factors involved in testing a motor back to back "to seek an equivalent".....numbers like this have taken on the following meanings?

How much RPM is listed on that motor?
What size is that engine? .25, .27, .30, .32

Not saying this is right....but this is the reality
Ernie, thanks for responding, but I'm not sure I fully understand your statements, other than it would be hard to get comparable dyno data that you could trust between different dynos (I agree, just hoping someone will develop a method that is inherently comparable. It can be done). However since Novak lists Krpm per Volt as do other manufacturers, and they also list Watts ratings (I assume no load at some voltage or max at stall or something) I got the impression this was some kind of standard measurement. Are Krpm per Volts comparable between motor makes and models? What about wattage ratings?

I really do understand how easy it is to generate numbers that don't mean anything. But if I want, for instance, the most powerful brushless motor I can get for a particular use, how am I supposed to figure out where to plunk down my $80 or $100 based on the data out there? As an example, in other words, should I buy your 3T motor versus the Novak 3.5 and if so what will it do better ?

Part of what I enjoy in this hobby is the technical aspects maybe I'm an unusual customer in that regard but I enjoy applying engineering to racing and actually I think it helps me race better plus hey it's fun. I enjoy being a geek. Not a nerd, geeks are cool, we do sports, nerds are the ones that have to have tape on their glasses, but geeks come up with the cool stuff like brushless motor technology and dynos. Just kidding not trying to start a flame war with any nerds out there...
swopemike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2006, 08:35 PM   #52
Tech Champion
 
Still Bill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 7,236
Trader Rating: 12 (100%+)
Default

Pretty good thoughts for a Tech Rookie...Advance this guy to at least Sportsman.

Oops! He is already an "Tech Initiate"...Go for it!
__________________
Constantly evolving CRC WGT and WGT-R/T...Carpet & Asphalt...All thanks to Team CRC.

And a pair of Associated B6 buggies for turf and clay tracks.
Still Bill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2006, 08:43 PM   #53
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Michigan
Posts: 3,319
Trader Rating: 28 (100%+)
Default

I just want to race and have fun, and not extend the days any longer than they have to be. I see no reason to run separate brush/brushless classes for mod. To me that is an open class and if you choose to much motor that is your fault no matter what you run. Only reason I see to race them separate is if they BL guys go lipo and start running longer mains.

Brushless stock is hard for me to say. I'm the kind of guy (nitro, but races some elec) who won't spend a bunch of dough to replace my 3 year old batts but will drop the coin on a brushless system. So if I get a 13.5 stocker I will probably be even with the guys who have the best batts and are the best tuners that I race with. But if they get the same setup they will tear me up. Oh well that's the choice we all make. I stick with mod because I find it the most fun.

For running elec I love the brushless setup I have. It performs excellent and the only motors I've cut all summer have been for my buddies without a lathe. I like changing shock oils, springs, and just playing with setup rather than changing brushes and cleaning motors. It's just a personal preference thing and I wish we could all just go out and have a fun raceday with all the classes filled up.

Someone mentioned slowing stockers down earlier. That's funny as my buddy and I were talking about that today. His fiancee and her kid race with him but in novice. They are getting frustrated due to tubes and broken parts, and also sandbaggers. They may end up quitting mostly due to the parts thing. I told him if he wants to make it more fun for them he needs to take a cell off their batteries until they learn better control. They may feel slow but I think the end results of finishing races will more than make them happy enough with the performance.

As for trinity getting into brushless, great. The more the merrier and competiton makes things better. Tomorrows saturday so everybody have a great raceday!!
jbrow1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2006, 09:19 PM   #54
Tech Elite
 
Rick Hohwart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,935
Default

A (1) stock brushless equivalent seems like a good idea. But what happens when competition develops, and you have 5 manufacturers with stock equivalents competing against one another to produce the best motor?

I have heard many "motor of the week" complaints in the past. I don't think many would be happy if there $100 "last forever" brushless motor was made obsolete overnight by a faster model.
__________________
www.reedypower.com
Rick Hohwart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2006, 09:22 PM   #55
Tech Initiate
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 24
Default

Brushless will probably be it's own class. I have raced Novak 4300 exclusively for about a year.

Last weekend we had a heat of 13.5's mixed with some stock motors. I don't think the stockers were especially good and therefore the 13.5's were faster. I have not drawn any conclusions yet as far as co-mingling them. But, initially I would guess it's not going to be fair to the stockers.
Novak has put a lot of effort into their brushless program and it has taken the Midwest by storm. Associated has stepped up also.

It's tough to sell a newbie on the cost effectiveness of brushless because they usually don't understand the effort/expense required in brushed racing initially.

I'm no expert, I am just calling it like I've seen/experienced it.
Faster1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2006, 09:28 PM   #56
Team EAM
 
EAMotorsports's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Murfreesboro, TN
Posts: 9,158
Trader Rating: 79 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to EAMotorsports
Default

Ernie and Rick both made great comments about some brushless motors being faster than others. I can tell you for a FACT that it's very easy to dyno a Brushless motor on the dyno you have sitting at home right now (if you have one) and that all the brushless motors I have dyno'ed are no more equal than a case of stock motors that come through here.

Stock/19 turn Brushless is not going to equalize stock class. If you get outrun you'll just be going and buying 90.00 motors instead of 40.00 motors every week.

Time will tell....

EA
__________________
Contact Us
Team EAM, Our Facebook
Team EAM | Xray | RCAmerica | Hudy | APEX Raceway and Hobbies | RC Mission | Killer Concepts | AVID | Hobbywing.
EAMotorsports is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2006, 09:39 PM   #57
Tech Initiate
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 24
Default

I have not had the opportunity to test any brushless motors on an dyno. But, Where I race we usually have at least 15 to 25+ 4300 drivers. And it is not uncommon to see the top 10 or 12 (A and B main) within hundredths of a second. If that is not parity I don't know what is.
Those that are slower [me] are struggling with setup/driving errors.
Faster1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2006, 09:42 PM   #58
Tech Lord
 
syndr0me's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: 5280 Raceway
Posts: 13,140
Trader Rating: 32 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Faster1
I have not had the opportunity to test any brushless motors on an dyno. But, Where I race we usually have at least 15 to 25+ 4300 drivers. And it is not uncommon to see the top 10 or 12 (A and B main) within hundredths of a second. If that is not parity I don't know what is.
Those that are slower [me] are struggling with setup/driving errors.
The 4300 class is starting to catch on around here, too. It outnumbered the stock class 2 to 1 in its first week, and nobody in 4300 was saying how much they missed stock, ya dig? For major races, the battle is still alive and well. In the clubs, it's clear what people what.
syndr0me is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2006, 11:10 AM   #59
Suspended
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Back That Thang Up!
Posts: 3,468
Trader Rating: 11 (100%+)
Default

I'm still trying to find out who runs a $20 stock motor in serious competition?
403forbidden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2006, 11:17 AM   #60
Tech Adept
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 185
Default

I am a still trying to find out who runs "a stock equivalent" brushless system in serious competition :-)

I have seen Co27's at mail-order houses in the $20-$26 range
ErnieP is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Top ten RC Myths that should be busted? mrrcguy Electric On-Road 153 12-20-2008 03:01 AM
Trinity DUO brushless hav_lova Australia For Sale/Trade 0 08-13-2008 11:47 PM
New Trinity Brushless YmeBP Electric On-Road 36 08-11-2008 03:42 PM
trinity N80 brushless? lifeform Electric Off-Road 3 03-21-2007 03:45 AM
mmm Brushless motor myths NR Australian Racing 160 02-15-2004 04:33 AM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 05:31 AM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net