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Old 11-03-2003, 08:51 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bubblestc3
It takes a leval of skill to tune a motor, where as BL motors just need to be set once, and they are fast.
so your arguement is that in order to race a spec class such as stock, you need to know how to tweak a motor in order to be competitive? I'd rather let the driving do the work, than the motor in the car. If everybody in stock class switched to a brushless system, I think we would get a TON more racers to join the hobby, no more black art in the motor area!

Makes me wonder if this discussion would even be going on if trinity had come out with a *stock* spec brushless system? Or how about Reedy/LRP? If all the manufacturers team up and make a system with the same spec's, I believe the brushed stock class would dissapear.

my .02
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Old 11-03-2003, 08:55 PM   #32
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Ok, here is a scenerio...
There is a race, with classes: novice, intermediate, sportsman, Pro stock, mod, pro mod, Brushless, 19t, and f201. Someone races Pro stock with a brushless(regardless of wheather or not it is a "stock" brushless, IT IS A BRUSHLESS!!!!!!!!!!!). That person should race BRUSHLESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What you seem to be missing, is that some BRUSHED racers DO NOT feel that they should have to race a Brushless car WHEN THERE IS A SEPRATE CLASS FOR BRUSHLESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Brushless motor is not allowed(by roar, and all other orginazations) to run with Brushed motored cars for a reason!(cough, cough, unfair advantage, cough, cough)
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Old 11-03-2003, 08:58 PM   #33
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Bubbles: The point of the *stock* brushless is to have a zero maintanence motor that has the same performance as an average dyno tuned stock motor.

I agree, brushless setups such as a hacker C50 or the Novak SS5800 should be in AT LEAST the mod class, if not a seperate class of its own. But if a brushless motor is DESIGNED to compete with stock brushed motors, why kick it out to yet another class?
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Old 11-03-2003, 09:00 PM   #34
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I've been staying back and watching this thread grow from the prior spot it was at, to where it is now..... and I have to agree that the brushless is not anyway the same as a reg stock motor in performance, or cost$...and does not conform to any rules set for STOCK racing whether it is just club, regional, national or any kind of organized racing that I have attended.

Brushless belongs to a separate class, whether the guy who runs it is faster and better than everyone else or not. It does not matter if this person is slower even. They should only be run in the class specified for BRUSHLESS.

Since there is usually is a separate class for brushless motors now, that should not be a problem or an excuse.

And if there are any doubters.. I do plan on getting one in the future, and have nothing against the BL systems......I just am one that believes in what is fair!!
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Old 11-03-2003, 09:02 PM   #35
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RTO, THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 11-03-2003, 09:04 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by Blind

If all the manufacturers team up and make a system with the same spec's, I believe the brushed stock class would dissapear.

my .02
THIS would actually be a GOOD thing. Will it happen anytime soon? Who is to say.

So for the time being it will have to be up to the individual tracks and racers to decide if BL should be allowed in the same class.
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Old 11-03-2003, 09:05 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by Blind
Bubbles: The point of the *stock* brushless is to have a zero maintanence motor that has the same performance as an average dyno tuned stock motor.

I agree, brushless setups such as a hacker C50 or the Novak SS5800 should be in AT LEAST the mod class, if not a seperate class of its own. But if a brushless motor is DESIGNED to compete with stock brushed motors, why kick it out to yet another class?
I am sorry if I am bursting your bubble(hahaha, my username, oh yeah, back to the point) but, NO MATTER HOW THEY PACKAGE IT, NAME IT, OR SELL IT AS, THE BRUSHLESS "STOCK" WILL NEVER BE "EQUAL" WITH STOCK MOTORS!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 11-03-2003, 09:23 PM   #38
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Interesting topic indeed.In the case of bl stock motor settings and running a brushed motor I would say that everyone is not wrong nor right.Bl motors are an evetuality.wheather you like it or not.So are new battery technologies.Roar rules are roar rules.If you track is not a roar track,and they allow it,then fine.
Bubbles...I believe that you sometimes argue to hear yourself speak.Your arguements are valid, but your delivery is a little course and abbrasive and takes away weight to your arguement.I think you say certain things just to get a rise out of people.This is not the only thread I have seen you do it in.Remember the WARPSPEED incident and someone from school using your password and login yada yada yada....Your a young guy thats opinionate,but you have to remember there are always gonna be those who are more experienced and know more then you.You come off a bit pompus.Relax.
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Old 11-03-2003, 09:57 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by racenut123

Bubbles...I believe that you sometimes argue to hear yourself speak.Your arguements are valid, but your delivery is a little course and abbrasive and takes away weight to your arguement.I think you say certain things just to get a rise out of people.This is not the only thread I have seen you do it in.Remember the WARPSPEED incident
Your a young guy thats opinionate,but you have to remember there are always gonna be those who are more experienced and know more then you.You come off a bit pompus.Relax.
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA sorry bubbles thats just plain funny needed a laff
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Old 11-03-2003, 10:00 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by Blind
so your arguement is that in order to race a spec class such as stock, you need to know how to tweak a motor in order to be competitive? I'd rather let the driving do the work, than the motor in the car. If everybody in stock class switched to a brushless system, I think we would get a TON more racers to join the hobby, no more black art in the motor area!

Makes me wonder if this discussion would even be going on if trinity had come out with a *stock* spec brushless system? Or how about Reedy/LRP? If all the manufacturers team up and make a system with the same spec's, I believe the brushed stock class would dissapear.

my .02
As a racer who has just joined the hobby, I agree wholeheartedly.

Picture this...there are like 15 people at a local parking lot race, I'm literally at my first "real" race...and I'm racing "sportsman stock" (there was nitro, "stock" and off-road to choose from) and getting clowned by 8-10 laps a heat...and guys are bitching and moaning that I had a brushless in "stock". I tell you, there's more sniveling at an average R/C race than there is at a "1:1 scale" race.

Most days I can barely keep it off the boards, but I guess I have an unfair advantage, so I need to race with the experts. I did end up getting second one time...there were only two of us running at the end.

Oh yeah...funny story, somewhat relevant:

I know this guy, writer for a BIG "Hot Rod" type magazine...does all kinds of tech articles on new stuff, day in-day out...he really has a hard time with electronic ignition. I think he still thinks it's a fad or something. I mean, it's only been like 40 years since they first came out, right?

Maybe I should just get a nitro car after all...in the end, it seems like less hassle than trying to run "stock" class. A starter box is cheaper than a lathe, right?

Last edited by Turbo Joe; 11-03-2003 at 10:09 PM.
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Old 11-03-2003, 10:08 PM   #41
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brushless in stock is just plan stupid
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Old 11-03-2003, 10:08 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally posted by Blind
If everybody in stock class switched to a brushless system, I think we would get a TON more racers to join the hobby, black art



my .02
I think this is a bad statment due to the fact that the newbies look at the overall cost of getting involved with the hobby. I have had a lot of interested ppl ask me " How much to get started with a car like yours " and when I tell them there mouth drops open but always add that there are some inexpensive RTR kits that thay can buy. of a lesser caliber. but now add the BL system and blamo another 250.00 ontop. it would scare more ppl away For now the BL systems should be for the experienced racers not for newbeis unless they plan to race for years.
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Old 11-03-2003, 10:15 PM   #43
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Tell a newbie that he has to buy a lathe to race in "stock" class and he'll do what I did, buy a brushless. I can race it for years, with the same motor, and they're $220 street price.

An rtr and a BL and you're in the hunt for less than $400. You gonna be even sorta in the hunt speed-wise with an RTR brushed motor?

I'm sure they didn't have them when you were a newbie, otherwise you would have bought one, too.

Signed,

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Old 11-03-2003, 10:35 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by Turbo Joe
Tell a newbie that he has to buy a lathe to race in "stock" class and he'll do what I did, buy a brushless. I can race it for years, with the same motor, and they're $220 street price.

An rtr and a BL and you're in the hunt for less than $400. You gonna be even sorta in the hunt speed-wise with an RTR brushed motor?

I'm sure they didn't have them when you were a newbie, otherwise you would have bought one, too.

Signed,

Newbie
sorry to step on your toes !!! oh wise one and your right they wernt around when I started racing as a matter of fact you could not even open up a stock motor and there was no such thing as a stock lathe until later years. and you still dont HAVE to buy a lathe to race. There are plenty of racers that would cut a com for some one It all has to do with attitued

signed old fart
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Last edited by howard hudson; 11-04-2003 at 08:40 AM.
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Old 11-03-2003, 11:53 PM   #45
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I don't need to buy one, but I still need access to one...ahhhh...I get it. That doesn't make me feel much better about it.

I think you guys oughta just buy a brushless and get it over with...then you'd have more fun and there wouldn't be as much drama with the motors. Oh yeah...I forgot. You guys *like* to rebuild motors after 5 minutes of run time.
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