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Old 11-06-2003, 10:09 AM   #181
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as for my 5 port analagy ive seen a lot of 3port legal
motors that are faster than 5port motors but it does
not make the 5 port legal. my point is why join a spec
class with a motor that does not meet spec requirements.
I could see this not being such a big deal in club racing.
and i do see the advantages of bl being more convinient
but why enter organized races with something thats
not allowed at most races especially larger events.
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Old 11-06-2003, 10:10 AM   #182
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Quote:
Originally posted by Turbo Joe
Actually, that's the point. right? If I choose to run a brushless -- that *may* or *may not* be more powerful than some of the brushed motors -- probably not quite as powerful as the front guys -- that's my strategic choice, consistency and ease of maintenance over raw power.

You can make that choice now, right? Aren't there brushed combos that don't quite run as fast, but last a few runs?

My point is that there's no power advantage. You and I hit the gas at the same time and I don't get away from you. We get done racing and I have a hot dog...you rebuild your motor...we race again and I still don't get away from you...another hot dog, another rebuild...

Of course there are advantages, but I don't think you can say with a straight face that it should be disallowed because it's cheaper, easier to maintain and it will make races more competitive.
Just because it is cheaper and easier to maintain does not mean it should be allowed to be ran with brushed motors. Here is my straight face just for you...Brushless motors should be ran in thier own seperate classes, not mixed with brushed motors. If I am not mistaken, at the Snowbirds they have a 19T rubber and 19T foam class. We all can agree that both rubber and foam tires are just that TIRES. But they are different types of tires and therefore there are advantages and disadvantages to both. Foam tires are faster the rubber tires on carpet and asphalt. Why not run them together, what's the difference they are both types of tires?!? Does anyone wonder as to why they run two seperate classes? Is it not self evident? It is the same with brushless and brushed motors. Wheter you want to accept it or not, the power does not change with a brushless motor as frequently as it does with a brushed motor, and therefore this allows a brushless motor to give the advantage to its driver...who knows what he is doing of course. Consistency is the key to this sport. Redundancy is what we all strive for in racing. In order to be consistent you have to do what makes you successfull over and over again, hence the task of being redundant. It is very difficult to be consistent in a race if the powerband and therefore the overall power changes in your motor.
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Last edited by Fred Hubbard; 11-06-2003 at 10:28 AM.
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Old 11-06-2003, 10:13 AM   #183
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Even in MOD brushless has the same adavantages, the only difference is that the cars are going faster. I think the advantage is even more evident in MOD, seeing how we HAVE to cut our motors before every run.
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Old 11-06-2003, 10:16 AM   #184
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Quote:
Originally posted by losirob
TurboJoe - if you read Charlie's post on page 1 of this thread, he makes it clear that even the 4300 will have more power than a brushed stock motor. "You can only take out so much power."

Rob

TurboJoe: I believe that negates any attempt you might have at trying to convince us that there is no power advantage. My argument was only that the power stays the same from run to run and is therefore one of the advantages of brushless. But we have a Novak official that states brushless has more power to boot. Anything else you want to try and add???
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Last edited by Fred Hubbard; 11-06-2003 at 10:38 AM.
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Old 11-06-2003, 12:26 PM   #185
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Quote:
Originally posted by losirob
TurboJoe - if you read Charlie's post on page 1 of this thread, he makes it clear that even the 4300 will have more power than a brushed stock motor. "You can only take out so much power."

Rob
But you forgot to quote the part where he said that based on their testing, any small advantage there *may* be can be eliminated with gear limitations.
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Old 11-06-2003, 12:34 PM   #186
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Default Good one Pops...

Quote:
Originally posted by popsracer
Looks like 'racenut123' has already tried it!!!

(BTW, this is payback for the 'Taco Bell' comments)
I will give you that!
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Old 11-06-2003, 12:44 PM   #187
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Quote:
Originally posted by Shiloh
If you want to run brushless, do it in mod class. Leave stock class the way it is.
Dude..."stock" IS a mod class...it's just a slower one.

I could kinda understand you guys being afraid if we were talking about some "spec" class where you get busted for tweaking on the motor.

At the races I've gone to, nobody checks anything on anybodies cars...from what I can see, it's done on the honor system.

It's going to be kinda stupid to slice up those same 20-30 people into two or three additional "classes" just because you guys are worried that overnight a brushless stock motor is going to get in the way of your march to "glory".

As it is, half the time I just race with the nitro guys...I could really give a crap if they're supposed to be faster. Maybe they are...maybe I can jump them out of the corners. It's way better to get to race with people that have comparable skills than to listen to the much faster guys in "stock" whining.

Are you guys starting to see why what could be a fun, affordable and enjoyable sport only pulls in a newbie once in a while...and keeps them even less often?
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Old 11-06-2003, 12:54 PM   #188
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Quote:
Originally posted by fhubbard
TurboJoe: I believe that negates any attempt you might have at trying to convince us that there is no power advantage. My argument was only that the power stays the same from run to run and is therefore one of the advantages of brushless. But we have a Novak official that states brushless has more power to boot. Anything else you want to try and add???
I think it's been pretty well established that it might have a little more "punch" out of a corner, but that a decent brushed motor will smoke it on the straights...and as Charlie said, whatever additional "punch" it has can be limited by gearing.

Like I said -- If you and I hit the gas and I can't get away...what's the advantage you're worried about? Don't you brush guys tweak your "stock" motors different to make it punchy or turn higher? I bet there are plenty of brushed combos out there that have more punch than the 4300.
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Old 11-06-2003, 12:54 PM   #189
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Well guys, everythig I have posted here has been twisted or mis-understood in some way by someone. There seems to some sort of debate, but I'm far to confused anymore to keep track of what's what here. Sorry.

If anyone has any questions directly for Novak, or need features and performance clarified, please feel free to drop us a line.

You can never make two different systems the same, you can barely make two stock motors run the same. We could never match ever single stock motor out there. The motor is bound to be either slightly faster than what you have, or slightly slower than what you have. We try to lean towards the faster side. Stock motors will contiue to change (get faster) just like that have for years. Who knows, the next stock motor that is released might resolve the need for the debate.

Thanks,
Charlie
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Old 11-06-2003, 01:37 PM   #190
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Default questions directly for Novak

Charlie;

Are there any Dyno specs out for the BL 4300 that us Brushed Guys can compare to?

Thanks,
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Old 11-06-2003, 03:04 PM   #191
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Be it in a class by itself or running against brushed motors. I'd just like no/low maintenance motor that I can run against other drivers of similar skill (high novice/low intermediate). I don't get my thrills by out wrenching my oponents but rather from trying to out drive them.

I hope the "stock" Novak brushless will be close enough to brushed stocks that I can run it in the twice weekly SoCal on-road nights as stock without being an outcast or bumped to brushless/mod.
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Old 11-06-2003, 06:53 PM   #192
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Quote:
Originally posted by HB Moose
I hope the "stock" Novak brushless will be close enough to brushed stocks that I can run it in the twice weekly SoCal on-road nights as stock without being an outcast or bumped to brushless/mod.
EXAAAAAACTLY! Amen my brutha.
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Old 11-07-2003, 08:45 AM   #193
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http://www.fanta.dk/showmovie.asp?mi...D-EC89B1F2A1AE

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Old 11-07-2003, 08:55 AM   #194
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Talking

LOL
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Old 11-07-2003, 09:45 AM   #195
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Cool

That was cool!
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