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Old 11-06-2003, 08:31 AM   #166
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LOL...that's funny...they wanna jack him for running the BL and he's not even running it. DOH!

I talked to Novak yesterday...I'm definitely gonna get one. It's supposed to be out in a couple weeks. Hopefully before Chris' race.

If you want to use my other BL speed control to check it out, lemme know. I have one in my offroad truck.
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Old 11-06-2003, 08:37 AM   #167
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Quote:
now a little news flash. Our man who won 2nd place with the BL system raced at socal tuesday night and did fairly well. After the race he was told he could not run THE BL system in his car in the pro stock class anymore. So he turned over his car and low and behold he had a monster stock in it.
i was asked just before the racing started to not run it. thats when this occurred
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Old 11-06-2003, 08:55 AM   #168
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i guess in the nitro sedan it's like bringing a 5 port outlaw
engine and making the argument that it is not as fast as
a 3port modified that is legal.
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Old 11-06-2003, 08:56 AM   #169
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Wow, very interesting "comments" in here. Okay peeps, here it is...up, close and personal (for some anyways). In reading some of your responses, and I believe both sides have valid ideas, the truth of the matter is no matter how you try to rationalize it, we all agree that brushed and brushless motors are different technologies. Just because they are close does not make them the same...apples and oranges folk. There are advantages to running a brushless motor in the same class as a brushed motor, wheter it be in a stock class or a modified class. Of those advantages a consistent poweband from run to run is the biggest advantage brushless has over brushed motors. What do you mean?...I'm glad you asked that question. Lets take two cars that are from the same manufacturer and setup identically, driven by the same driver, the only difference in the cars being one is brushless and the other is brushed (motors that is). Now, you can proceed a couple of different ways, you can either run 25 packs through each car without cutting the comm on the brushed car, or you can run the same 25 runs on both cars and cut the comm on the brushed car. Either way the brushless car will maintain a consistent powerband for all 25 runs. When I am competing, I cut the comm on my stock motors every run to maintain the same level of power, or I should say to eliminate the lack of power from the motor as a variable. While it may not be totally necessary to do so in stock class racing, a modified motor HAS to be cut every run in a competing situation to maintain consistent horsepower. Along with cutting the comm, your overall gear ratio HAS to be adjusted to maintain the same or near to the same power. This is not the case with brushless. Maintenance on the motor is taken out of the equation and therefore car setup and driving focus becomes the issue(s). This is why I believe that it is better to have classes dedicated to brushless and brushed motors. Understand that I like the idea of the brushless technology, but it's still different and should be separate under the rules.
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Old 11-06-2003, 09:01 AM   #170
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Quote:
Originally posted by jwf_frani
i guess in the nitro sedan it's like bringing a 5 port outlaw
engine and making the argument that it is not as fast as
a 3port modified that is legal.
I'm not a gas guy, but I understand that a "5-port outlaw" would be faster and wear out more rapidly, right?

If so, that's not a good analogy at all. The 4300 is built to make the *same* power, not more...just make it more reliably and affordably.
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Old 11-06-2003, 09:15 AM   #171
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Quote:
Originally posted by fhubbard

<snip into>
Just because they are close does not make them the same...apples and oranges folk. There are advantages to running a brushless motor in the same class as a brushed motor, wheter it be in a stock class or a modified class. Of those advantages a consistent poweband from run to run is the biggest advantage brushless has over brushed motors. What do you mean?...I'm glad you asked that question.
<snip examples>
However...the "advantages" you cite are consistency and ease of maintenance, not power. I say, as long as there's no power advantage for the BL, it should be allowed to compete.

Obviously, the brushed guys seem to think they can tune a brushed motor to some advantage, power-wise...go for it. I just don't want to mess with it and buy all the junk to go with them.

Waiting not so patiently for a 4300...
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Old 11-06-2003, 09:20 AM   #172
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Old 11-06-2003, 09:24 AM   #173
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Quote:
Originally posted by Turbo Joe
However...the "advantages" you cite are consistency and ease of maintenance, not power. I say, as long as there's no power advantage for the BL, it should be allowed to compete.

Obviously, the brushed guys seem to think they can tune a brushed motor to some advantage, power-wise...go for it. I just don't want to mess with it and buy all the junk to go with them.

Waiting not so patiently for a 4300...
Acutally the advantages I cited do translate into power. Look at it this way. When you cut the comm on a brushed motor, at some point you have to readjust your gearing. It's a hit a miss with the readjustment. You can follow all the rules when adjusting your gearing and you may still not have the same power, this has happened to me. With brushless the powerband is consistent from run to run, therefore you maintain the same power from run to run. It's not a matter of which has more power, it's a matter or which technology allows you to maintain the same power from run to run. I agree with you as I mentioned in my previous post, I like the idea of not needing to constantly compensate for the diameter of the comm. changing. But that alone is the reason why both technologies should be ran in different classes.
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Last edited by Fred Hubbard; 11-06-2003 at 09:32 AM.
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Old 11-06-2003, 09:25 AM   #174
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bubblestc3

Although I have never tried it, I am almost certin that my head can not fit in my butt(I could be wrong, I have never tried that before).
Looks like 'racenut123' has already tried it!!!

(BTW, this is payback for the 'Taco Bell' comments)
Attached Images
File Type: jpg racenut123.jpg (19.7 KB, 63 views)

Last edited by popsracer; 11-06-2003 at 09:44 AM.
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Old 11-06-2003, 09:28 AM   #175
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Quote:
Originally posted by popsracer
Looks like 'racenut123' has already tried it!!!
ROFLMAO....Wow...LOL This is a keeper, just DL it. Thanks pops very good one.
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Old 11-06-2003, 09:28 AM   #176
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LOL @ pops good one, I had seen that one before and wanted to post it but I couldn't find it. Very Funny!!!
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Old 11-06-2003, 09:40 AM   #177
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I think from now on we should call the class running the brushless motors "Novak Brushless stock" and the 27 turns "open stock". How about that!
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Old 11-06-2003, 09:41 AM   #178
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Quote:
Originally posted by fhubbard
Acutally the advantages I cited do translate into power.
Actually, that's the point. right? If I choose to run a brushless -- that *may* or *may not* be more powerful than some of the brushed motors -- probably not quite as powerful as the front guys -- that's my strategic choice, consistency and ease of maintenance over raw power.

You can make that choice now, right? Aren't there brushed combos that don't quite run as fast, but last a few runs?

My point is that there's no power advantage. You and I hit the gas at the same time and I don't get away from you. We get done racing and I have a hot dog...you rebuild your motor...we race again and I still don't get away from you...another hot dog, another rebuild...

Of course there are advantages, but I don't think you can say with a straight face that it should be disallowed because it's cheaper, easier to maintain and it will make races more competitive.
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Old 11-06-2003, 09:55 AM   #179
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Quote:
Originally posted by Turbo Joe
However...the "advantages" you cite are consistency and ease of maintenance, not power. I say, as long as there's no power advantage for the BL, it should be allowed to compete.
TurboJoe - if you read Charlie's post on page 1 of this thread, he makes it clear that even the 4300 will have more power than a brushed stock motor. "You can only take out so much power."

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Old 11-06-2003, 09:57 AM   #180
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If Novak's 4300 offers the same performance as a brushed stock motor and your club decides to allow it in stock class, will your club also allow ARCOR 0 degree 19t motors and full stack 23t motors in stock class? Or what about a Reedy KR with Street Spec brushes and a 15 turn arm and 5 degrees of timing? Those offer roughly the same performance as a ROAR legal stock motor, and each has certain advantages. Allowing various motors into stock class just because they offer the same performance is going to open a huge can of worms that simply does not need to be opened. Once you say performance rather than tech specs is the deciding factor, then just about anything is allowed in stock class. Eventually guys will be running full blown mod motors in stock class and claiming that they feel they are about the same performance as a stock motor. The end result is a giant mess of a class that is currently the backbone of most clubs.

If you want to run brushless, do it in mod class. Leave stock class the way it is.
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