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Old 01-26-2009, 12:26 PM   #1
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Default Much-more cell master .

Hi ,

I have a muchmore cell master (MM cm) , and some energ 4600 cells , these cells ( 5 cell pack ) only peak at 4300 mah .
They " peak cut " and i have read in the instruction booklet that it can capacity cut or zero V cut or peak cut and bla bla bla .

I would like to know how to get more MAH in the packs , i dont mind if voltage is reduced by a litle bit but i do want to get more runtime like around 500 mah more in the packs .
These packs are in great comdition and i have bought them from promatch .

I use peak charge at 5.4 amps and 3 mv.

Please i really need some help for racing in mod .
Any help is so much apreciated , thanks .
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Old 01-26-2009, 12:36 PM   #2
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I dont understand... why would you want more mah??? then buy bigger batteries! Dont you want more volts?
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Old 01-26-2009, 01:08 PM   #3
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I dont understand... why would you want more mah??? then buy bigger batteries! Dont you want more volts?
Ok , doesnt mater if you dont understand , i will explain.

I have received this batteries for christmas so they are really new and they only get 4300 inside this packs .
I cant buy bigger batteries because it will be too expensive and they wont be BRCA legal .
I only want to have more mah , i dont want more volt but i want more run time or more mah like this the cells can last the 5 ins races.

If you still dont understand me , what i want is more runtime in my packs like this they can last longer then the 5 min races .
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Old 01-26-2009, 01:15 PM   #4
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cyclone speed,

3mv is a pretty conservative peak setting, you might bumpo that up a little at a time and you'll get more into the packs. Probably not 500mah more tho...

When we were charging and looking for runtime over voltage, we'd cut back on the charge rate. Maybe going down to 4.5 ampos or so would get more in the pack.

You might also experiment with the multi-step "ctx charge" option instead of a straight constant charge. Step charging was supposed to get more runtime from a pack. I did play with step charging around six years ago, and I did seem to get a little more runtime on a charge.
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Old 01-26-2009, 01:37 PM   #5
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cyclone speed,

3mv is a pretty conservative peak setting, you might bumpo that up a little at a time and you'll get more into the packs. Probably not 500mah more tho...

When we were charging and looking for runtime over voltage, we'd cut back on the charge rate. Maybe going down to 4.5 ampos or so would get more in the pack.

You might also experiment with the multi-step "ctx charge" option instead of a straight constant charge. Step charging was supposed to get more runtime from a pack. I did play with step charging around six years ago, and I did seem to get a little more runtime on a charge.
Hi , when you ment " more mah in the packs " how many mah are you talking about is it 50 mah or 200 mah ?
If i charge my packs at a lower amp rate it will take longer to charge and the charge will not be finished before the heat , i already had this prob but i will use a lower rate when its a big meeting with plenty of time in between rounds.
I will try " ctx charge " again how many mah did uyou get in the packs more.
What setup will you use for the ctx charge ?
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Old 01-26-2009, 02:03 PM   #6
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DON'T go above 3mv as the peak setting otherwise you will just start to overheat the packs and you won't get any more usable energy in them.

The only way you will get 4600+ into the packs is if they have been low-rate equalised before they are put on charge. If they are just dumped in the car or equalised on a high-rate equaliser then you are unlikely to get 4600.

5.4A, although fine, is a little above the recommended rate these days. 4.6A would be a 1C rate which is what is now deemed safe for NiMH cells.

Step/CTX charge has no benefit. It was a fashion for a little while then everyone went back to a linear charge.

To be frank, what matters is how the car performs on the track, the numbers on the charger don't win you any races.
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Old 01-26-2009, 02:07 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by cyclone speed View Post
Hi , when you ment " more mah in the packs " how many mah are you talking about is it 50 mah or 200 mah ?
If i charge my packs at a lower amp rate it will take longer to charge and the charge will not be finished before the heat , i already had this prob but i will use a lower rate when its a big meeting with plenty of time in between rounds.
I will try " ctx charge " again how many mah did uyou get in the packs more.
What setup will you use for the ctx charge ?
By increasing the delta setting you're maybe going to get another 100 to maybe 150mah in there before you start getting into overheating. As long as you have your temp cutoff set to a reasonable setting you shouldn't fry anything.

One thing... I can't say how much extra the slower charge rate will give you, but it will help. If getting charged in a certain amount of time is already an issue, then the step charge will probably not be the solution... it can take even longer to charge that way. I didn't use the CTX years ago, I was using a Victor. I set a normal charge rate for the first 1000mah, then half an amp for 200mah, then back to a normal rate for the rest. That slow middle portion seemed to take forever.

You're probably not going to like hearing this, but if runtime is that much of an issue, you might want to look at your gearing or driving... THere's usually a LOT more runtime to be found that way than by charging tricks.
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Old 01-26-2009, 02:12 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by sosidge View Post
DON'T go above 3mv as the peak setting otherwise you will just start to overheat the packs and you won't get any more usable energy in them.

The only way you will get 4600+ into the packs is if they have been low-rate equalised before they are put on charge. If they are just dumped in the car or equalised on a high-rate equaliser then you are unlikely to get 4600.

5.4A, although fine, is a little above the recommended rate these days. 4.6A would be a 1C rate which is what is now deemed safe for NiMH cells.

Step/CTX charge has no benefit. It was a fashion for a little while then everyone went back to a linear charge.

To be frank, what matters is how the car performs on the track, the numbers on the charger don't win you any races.
OK , when i said " i need more mah " its because i CANT finish a race wich is sure i wont ba able to win , i can just finish a carpet race but i cant do a asphalt race because its more flowing , i really ned more mah not to win but to be able to finish a race .

I dont understand this sentence of yours :"The only way you will get 4600+ into the packs is if they have been low-rate equalised before they are put on charge. If they are just dumped in the car or equalised on a high-rate equaliser then you are unlikely to get 4600. " what is low rate or high rate ?
If you mean the amp rate i get it , i use a CTXD2 MM discharger wich i use to discharge my cells at 0.9v on linear 5amp .
If this is too " high rate " , can i use my CM as a discharger , discharge the pack to 4.5v (so 0.9v each cells) at a low rate like 2 amp ?
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Old 01-26-2009, 02:20 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by sosidge View Post
DON'T go above 3mv as the peak setting otherwise you will just start to overheat the packs and you won't get any more usable energy in them.
sosidge,

I wouldn't recommend going over 3mv per cell, but to my knowledge, the Much More CTX applies the 3mv setting to the pack, not per cell. I charge my 4 cell packs at a 12mv setting, which I believe is giving me 3mv per cell. I would charge five cell packs at 15mv.

Am I wrong about how the Much More CTX applies the peak setting? I'd hate to think i'm charging to a 12mv per cell dropoff... but my packs don't come off the charger hot, so I think I['ve got it right...
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Old 01-26-2009, 02:26 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by cyclone speed View Post
OK , when i said " i need more mah " its because i CANT finish a race wich is sure i wont ba able to win , i can just finish a carpet race but i cant do a asphalt race because its more flowing , i really ned more mah not to win but to be able to finish a race .

I dont understand this sentence of yours :"The only way you will get 4600+ into the packs is if they have been low-rate equalised before they are put on charge. If they are just dumped in the car or equalised on a high-rate equaliser then you are unlikely to get 4600. " what is low rate or high rate ?
If you mean the amp rate i get it , i use a CTXD2 MM discharger wich i use to discharge my cells at 0.9v on linear 5amp .
If this is too " high rate " , can i use my CM as a discharger , discharge the pack to 4.5v (so 0.9v each cells) at a low rate like 2 amp ?
I don't think your CTXD2 is the problem, it is appropriate for equalizing the pack to .9 per cell before charging. I believe sosidge was referring to those 30 amp linear discharge trays that were popular not too long ago.

If you're not able to finish a 5 minute race on asphalt, I'd look elsewhere for the answer... too much motor, incorrect gearing, drag in the drivetrain, or driving style. An issue in any of those areas will do more to kill runtime than your charging regimen can fix.

What car are you running? What motor?
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Old 01-26-2009, 02:42 PM   #11
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I don't think your CTXD2 is the problem, it is appropriate for equalizing the pack to .9 per cell before charging. I believe sosidge was referring to those 30 amp linear discharge trays that were popular not too long ago.

If you're not able to finish a 5 minute race on asphalt, I'd look elsewhere for the answer... too much motor, incorrect gearing, drag in the drivetrain, or driving style. An issue in any of those areas will do more to kill runtime than your charging regimen can fix.

What car are you running? What motor?
Im running a HB cyclone , and drivetrain is smooth evrything is smooth diff suspension belts ...
I was running a nosram 3.5 with the proper gearing wich i asked from a nosram team driver but snice know , because its always good to have a spare motor i bought a GM 6t wich is less powerfull but i saw some good review on it and it was good price , so if its less powerfull think that it will have less amp draw but i still would like to know how to get my packs to peak at 4600 mah like this i will be happy to have some highly competitive 4600 packs that peak at 4600 mah instead of 4300 mah wich makes me a bit un happy , yes the CM users 3mv delta peak for the pack so i guesse i could try 15mv unless its bad .

What does it do if i put a higher delta peak , people say that it will get the pack hot ( i have a fan fot batts ) but wat does delta peak does , i know its the amount of voltage drop ... but why going to higher mv will change what ?
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Old 01-26-2009, 02:43 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by cyclone speed View Post
OK , when i said " i need more mah " its because i CANT finish a race wich is sure i wont ba able to win , i can just finish a carpet race but i cant do a asphalt race because its more flowing , i really ned more mah not to win but to be able to finish a race .
If you cannot finish a 5 min race with 4300 mAh charge in your cells there is something wrong...!

BTW...some packs will not deliver what is written on them....


..
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Old 01-26-2009, 02:53 PM   #13
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If you cannot finish a 5 min race with 4300 mAh charge in your cells there is something wrong...!

BTW...some packs will not deliver what is written on them....


..
Well , maybe im very agressive driver , wich is what most people tell me and im also running MOD with a 3.5 .
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Old 01-26-2009, 03:18 PM   #14
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I also drive mod with a 3.5T on 5 cells.
I also had a lot of trouble with runtime like everyone else.
I think that 80% of the runtime that you come short is from gearing and the other 20% is from your bateries and motor etc....

I am now practicing to drive smooth and it is starting to pay off.
On every track there are a few places where you go just as fast with 50% throttle then with 100% These ar good places to save some runtime. You have to idenifie these placen before you start your run and then keep it in mind the whole 5 minutes. It is easy to forget and to begin pumping the trhottle. When you have a 180 corner and short after that another then your wheels will spin when aplying full throttle. But you dont notice it,and you are spilling a lot of energy.If you dont believe me then you have to test it out.Make sure that you are the only one on the track. Go full throttle between the corners and listen to the sound of the motor and see how fast the car accelerates. Then do the same with less throttle.

The difference between driving agressive or smooth is dumping at 4.5 minutes or having 500mah left at the end. All with the same gearing and the same laptimes.
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Old 01-26-2009, 03:51 PM   #15
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but i still would like to know how to get my packs to peak at 4600 mah like this i will be happy to have some highly competitive 4600 packs that peak at 4600 mah instead of 4300 mah wich makes me a bit un happy
300mah more charge might get you a few more seconds of runtime... not much more than that...

Quote:
Originally Posted by cyclone speed View Post
What does it do if i put a higher delta peak , people say that it will get the pack hot ( i have a fan fot batts ) but wat does delta peak does , i know its the amount of voltage drop ... but why going to higher mv will change what ?
raising the delta peak value will make the charger go longer before it stops. raise it too much and it just overheats the pack. I wouldn't go higher than 3mv per cell.

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Well , maybe im very agressive driver , wich is what most people tell me and im also running MOD with a 3.5 .
If you're an aggressive driver a 3.5 is not the way to finish races. Try to become a smooth driver. Your lap times will get better as a bonus...
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