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Old 01-26-2009, 07:55 AM   #1
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Default Will shaft drive cars make a comeback in stock racing due to brushless motors?

One of the local fast guys has a theory that shaft drive cars (such as the TC3 - which he has gone back to racing) is at a big advantage in stock class racing with a brushless motor. He believes the effeciency of the drivetrain relative to a belt drive system allows you to gear much higher and keep temps lower.

Thoughts?
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Old 01-26-2009, 08:19 AM   #2
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shaft wins
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Old 01-26-2009, 08:21 AM   #3
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Well, I don't know first hand how brushless effects belt cars, relative to shaft cars. But my TC4 is geared quite high for my 17.5 Novak. I run 80/52 and at about 168-170F for five minutes solid. I can easily pass most other 27t on the straits. So, I would say it's mostly true.
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Old 01-26-2009, 08:26 AM   #4
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I thought most of the reason belt cars came back in to play was weight balance, motor inertia and the fact that with better belts and more efficient pulleys, the efficiency difference between belt vs shaft was minimal.

So if this was true, I doubt people would, in general go back to shaft. Could be wrong though
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Old 01-26-2009, 09:10 AM   #5
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Well, what i thought is, since use LIPO batteries, so shaft cars are really a big matter in the 13.5 or 17.5 races.
As i heard from somebody which ran TBEVO5ms with those HK's brand 7.4 LIPO in the 23T/4000KV class at large track, the car ran without enough punch, even is shaft car, imagine he run belt car, could be worse for sure.
So, before switching which type of cars will you run, the decision depended also in what kind of track condition and what kind of equipment will you put run at your car.

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Old 01-26-2009, 09:28 AM   #6
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What's the most capable shaft drive car still available? The Evo5 MS is basically a shaft drive 416, sharing all its suspension parts and such. Too bad they're every bit as expensive.
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Old 01-26-2009, 09:43 AM   #7
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He seems to think torque steer hasn't been a problem for him with the brushless motors.

I think Kyosho might have a shaft car? Not sure though.

This guy is dialed for sure. He has finished almost a full lap ahead of a couple of ROAR A-mainers in a big race locally in a clean race by all. Though weekly in the club races he is around the same speed as the belt drive cars. He seems to use much older tires though then the other fast guys. On the flip side he is just a really good driver. He had a TC5 that he was able to get almost as fast but he said he was really cooking the motor to do it.

Seems that new Russian TC is going to be a shaft drive car. The way things go in circles in RC just wouldn't be surprised if things came back around.
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Old 01-26-2009, 09:48 AM   #8
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Kyosho makes a new one. Like $425 on the Kyosho America website. Looks nice though, like the Diggity update, but 6 cell. Now if Diggity would update their bottom chassis for a lipo tray we'd be set with the TC3! There is also the IRS TC3 upgrade kit for $329. Very cool.
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Old 01-26-2009, 09:52 AM   #9
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Was looking at the Tamiya site about the Evo 5 and it kinda suggests the same thing:

While belt drive is widely used for modified racing because of its inherent stability, the shaft drive platform has maintained key benefits for stock and 19 turn classes. These benefits include instant acceleration, high drive train efficiency and fast steering response, all of which are ideal for racing stock and 19turn.
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Old 01-26-2009, 10:13 AM   #10
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Over the course of last years summer season I thought about this and in the end I bought from a friend a very good condition Yokomo Lcg supplied with front diff, spool and a 1-way for different track needs.
I found that on tight twisty tracks the shaft drive car was on the pace but on the more open venues I was in trouble?
I then took the car in-doors and was miles of the pace. I'm sure that if I had pushed on with the car and worked on set-up I could have got it going well but I didn't.
I went back to belt drive shortly before Christmas with a T2'009 and have not looked back since.
For me, belt drive is best. End of storey.
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Old 01-26-2009, 10:18 AM   #11
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Well the shaft advantage as relating to brushless motors I think would only be on large tracks. If it allows you to gear higher vs a belt car and maintain the same temps. On a carpet track where you aren't taxing the motors as much then Im not sure a shaft drive would necessarily be better.
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Old 01-26-2009, 11:16 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by or8ital View Post
Seems that new Russian TC is going to be a shaft drive car. The way things go in circles in RC just wouldn't be surprised if things came back around.
I have been very intrigued by the Russian TC. IF it works I could definitely see that drive train being copied down the road.
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Old 01-26-2009, 12:04 PM   #13
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Default You've been shafted!!!! :P

Last outdoor season I wheeled a shaft car (Yok LCG) and it was uber fast with a 13.5 and zero brake setting(yes) the punch was amazing plus zero torque steer.

It took a while to learn to use the available punch with a one way but once I starting smoothing out the trigger it was great. Nothing like coming out of a turn and within a sec or two being at full speed, belts can't do that.

While indoor rubber the LCG car is at a bit of a disadvantage...too much flex the evo 5 might be better for this.
all depends on the driving conditions for shaft cars.

Don't forget shaft = less maintenance
a big difference now is that using big pinion 43+ tooth makes setting gear mesh much easier than before since the motor screws are easier to get to.

just my 2 pennies.
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Old 01-26-2009, 12:24 PM   #14
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hey Ollie i just got my 3mm chassis kit for the LCG in the mail today! should prove an excellent product on carpet!

Jari still has 1 or 2 more sets left, $65 for a complete set is a steal. PM me if your interested!
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Old 01-26-2009, 12:54 PM   #15
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Something to consider.

Torque steer was a beotch on shaft drive cars with brushed motors. The heavy armature (large polar moment of intertia) created havoc as the armature accelerated and decelerated.

Brushless motor might be ideal for shaft drive.
The brushless motors are much lighter and most of the mass is on a smaller radius - thus a much smaller polar moment of interia. They should have a lot LESS torque steer.

Bring back shaft drive! Brushless cures torque steer.
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