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Old 03-13-2006, 08:02 PM   #13276
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Quote:
Originally Posted by veecee
I think you mean heavier oil makes the car LESS responsive - more resistance = slower response. This is why you want to use heavier oil to better control the quicker rebound of the stiffer springs.

axle182, my only other suggestion would be to try running softer srpings all round and raising the roll centre. The softer springs will allow the car to handle the bumps a bit better but the raised roll centre will give you regain the roll resistance lost by running softer springs. However this is just my theory as I haven't never run on bumpy carpet before.
Yes the shock will rebound quicker with lighter oil but the car will fell more responsive with heavier oil.
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Old 03-13-2006, 09:51 PM   #13277
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Originally Posted by Simon A
Yes the shock will rebound quicker with lighter oil but the car will fell more responsive with heavier oil.
You will have more pack, so the initial reaction will be quicker, but it will not generate as much traction as softer oil.
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Old 03-14-2006, 01:35 AM   #13278
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anyone have the part number for the new tamiya tuned springs? they all come in white, but have small paint dots that lets you tell them apart (blue, yellow, red, etc)

thanks guys!
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Old 03-14-2006, 02:42 AM   #13279
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hebiki
anyone have the part number for the new tamiya tuned springs? they all come in white, but have small paint dots that lets you tell them apart (blue, yellow, red, etc)

thanks guys!

See post Post #13093 from a few days ago...
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Old 03-14-2006, 07:50 AM   #13280
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Well as i checked last night, i realised i was using 20wt oil , so the bounce from the springs seems like the main culprit. Would you say that on a bumpy surface, you should use a heavier weight oil than u normally would, and you can adjust springs from there, or would you still want to keep the heavy springs with heavy oil and vice versa? Ive changed to 60wt oil using the same springs. Ill try tamiya blues and whites next also.

OK raising roll centre. Every description ive read of roll centre shows a diagram where your trace the top link and arm to a point. what do you guys do if the a arms are like \ / instead of / \? I can understand the theory if your arms look like / \, but how can you get the intersection of your top link and a arms if your arms look like \ / ??? Do you guys run like 3mm of spacers under the blocks or something? Thats the only way i can see to adjust it. The T2's arms can easily be seen to be / \. I noticed the difference between the T2 suspension and the 415, was the vertical distance between the rear axle, and the hub pivot point, where it pivots on the a arm, was alot less on the 415. there is a difference of about 2mm, which means the T2 hub pivot point, was 2mm further below the axle, which means for the same ride height the T2's arms were / \ and the 415 was \ /.

As you can probably tell im still relatively new to all this, but starting to think i should ignore the theory and just keep trying things?

Do you guys think 2deg toe out on the rear is excessive also? I was running 1 deg on my 05, and it was nice, with some small adjustment of the front inner linkage to reduce the steering. Thanks for all the replies guys
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Old 03-14-2006, 08:11 AM   #13281
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Quote:
Originally Posted by axle182
Can anyone suggest ways to handle a bumpy indoor track on Carpet with foams? Some of my setup (off the top of my head)

Front
Springs - AE Copper
Oil - 30wt AE 3 hole pist
Shock Position - Outside hole on arm, Second from outside on tower
Blocks - A-A (1mm spacers under both)
I cant remember the C1-C2 config, but the front axles are lower in the suspension....
Camber - 1
Castor - 4
Upper Link - ~3mm spacers on inside
Arms Central between blocks
Swaybar - Red
Droop - 3-4mm
Ride - 4.5mm
D pink orange

Rear
Springs - AE Red
Oil - 30wt AE 3 hole pist
Shock Postion - Outside hole on arm, third hole from outside on tower
Blocks - B-D (1mm spacers under both)
1 deg hubs (total 2 deg toe in)
Upper Link - Central hole in hub 1.5mm spacer on outside ball cup. 0 spacers on inside.
Camber - 1.5
No Swaybar
Droop - ~1mm
Ride - 4.5 ~ 5mm
D pink

Im running locked centre, Jergen front ball diff, loose belts, G6 body and its in stock class. Track is usually tight but has some speed parts, good combination, but its the bumps which are making the car really unpredictable. Does anyone have any suggestions on what to try to make the car more user friendly over the bumps, while not loosing corner speed? I was matching times with the fast T2's at our local track, but wasnt as consistent. Thanks
I coplied this from my earlier post dated 03/07

My set-up was close to Marc R. Las Vegas Set-up, which I downloaded from the Tamiya site, with the following exceptions:

Stock 2.5mm Chassis – 4mm not yet available
Springs 30 lbs front / 25 lbs rear
Blue front sway bar
Droop or Up-travel: 1.5mm front / 3.0mm rear
Rear block: A/C (only because I ran out of D blocks –otherwise would have used B/D)
Rear Toe in: 2 degree (used a 1 degree hub)
Front Block: D/D (use a 4mm wheel hex, no spacers)
Track width: 190mm for both (need wheel spacer & 5mm wheel hex in the rear to achieve 190mm width)
All other setting are the same as Marc R’s.

JACO 2-satge 2x Pink Orange Fr / 2x Pink Rears (57mm)
Roll-out 26.5-27.2mm stock
Roll-out 29mm 19T

Biggest benefit: was the chassis braces I used from an old 415 standard kit attached to the front & rear chassis post to stiffen the overall chassis.
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Old 03-14-2006, 08:13 AM   #13282
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Quote:
Originally Posted by axle182
Do you guys think 2deg toe out on the rear is excessive also?
Do you mean Toe in? I don't think you would want toe out at the rear...
2 deg toe in on the rear is not excessive.

If you mean 2 deg toe out for the front, it is probably excessive...

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Old 03-14-2006, 08:14 AM   #13283
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[QUOTE=axle182]

OK raising roll centre. Every description ive read of roll centre shows a diagram where your trace the top link and arm to a point. what do you guys do if the a arms are like \ / instead of / \? I can understand the theory if your arms look like / \, but how can you get the intersection of your top link and a arms if your arms look like \ / ??? Do you guys run like 3mm of spacers under the blocks or something? Thats the only way i can see to adjust it. The T2's arms can easily be seen to be / \. I noticed the difference between the T2 suspension and the 415, was the vertical distance between the rear axle, and the hub pivot point, where it pivots on the a arm, was alot less on the 415. there is a difference of about 2mm, which means the T2 hub pivot point, was 2mm further below the axle, which means for the same ride height the T2's arms were / \ and the 415 was \ /.

QUOTE]

Per Martin Crisp:
A high roll center (which reduces the roll) can be achieved by either adding shims under the hinge pin blocks or removing shims from the upper link on the inside attachment point. In other words you want the inboard end points of the lower A arm and the upper link closer together than the outboard end points of the A arm and the upper link.
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Old 03-14-2006, 08:23 AM   #13284
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stein Tumert
Do you mean Toe in? I don't think you would want toe out at the rear...
2 deg toe in on the rear is not excessive.

If you mean 2 deg toe out for the front, it is probably excessive...

Stein
Sorry i meant toe in. thanks.
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Old 03-14-2006, 08:26 AM   #13285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Giordano
Per Martin Crisp:
A high roll center (which reduces the roll) can be achieved by either adding shims under the hinge pin blocks or removing shims from the upper link on the inside attachment point. In other words you want the inboard end points of the lower A arm and the upper link closer together than the outboard end points of the A arm and the upper link.
Well on my car, i already have 1mm shims under the blocks, no shims under the inner linkage point, and about 3mm of shims under the outer upper linkage point. My question was more of the / \ versus \ / when looking at the rear or front arms. I just noticed that the T2 is alot different than the 415 in this area. I was ondering if anyone has tried T2 hubs on the 415? Anyways, ill see what the oil change in the shocks will do, and go from there. Thanks guys
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Old 03-14-2006, 08:54 AM   #13286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by axle182
Well on my car, i already have 1mm shims under the blocks, no shims under the inner linkage point, and about 3mm of shims under the outer upper linkage point. My question was more of the / \ versus \ / when looking at the rear or front arms. I just noticed that the T2 is alot different than the 415 in this area. I was ondering if anyone has tried T2 hubs on the 415? Anyways, ill see what the oil change in the shocks will do, and go from there. Thanks guys
I had a t2 and sold it...no need to change the hubs...especailly consider that the t2 had molding issues with their hubs....
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Old 03-14-2006, 09:07 AM   #13287
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Default rear hubs

I believe some guys at my local track are running tamiya rear hubs/uprights on their T2, while they wait for xray to fix the molding issue.
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Old 03-14-2006, 01:18 PM   #13288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by axle182
Sorry i meant toe in. thanks.
We currently run 2.5 deg toe in at the rear (indoor carpet/rubber tires) which works well...

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Old 03-14-2006, 02:38 PM   #13289
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Hi guys, just to let you know, there is a little skype contact button on my front page now...
Cheers
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Old 03-14-2006, 02:43 PM   #13290
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Hi guys, just to let you know, there is a little skype contact button on my front page now...
Cheers
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