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Old 02-26-2006, 11:30 PM   #13036
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Originally Posted by bender
@F1 Larry


For example: I have often been told that if the car gets more roll at the front, then it will have more steering. My experience has been the complete opposite - so if someone suggests that as something to try, then I would rather try another suggestion first, one that might be more likely to work for me.
What I have found with adjusting roll centre, front or rear, is it really depends on the rest of the car's setup. Many other factors seem to affect how valuable adjusting the roll centre is in certain situations.

I have found that adjusting the car to roll more at the front sometimes will work very well, it will seem to load up the front end very well and the car will be very quick and will behave well. On other occasions, different setup, tires etc, I have made the same adjustment and it just seemed to delay the steering and when the car did decide to turn, it turned like a battleship. Once the front RC was raised, the car reacted much faster, seemed a lot "sharper" in the turns and just turned better all round.

So depending on the balance and overall setup on the rest of the car, in my opinion, seems to play a huge part on what the adjustment will do. Especially when adjusting RC.
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Old 02-27-2006, 01:11 AM   #13037
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Originally Posted by Jack2
What I have found with adjusting roll centre, front or rear, is it really depends on the rest of the car's setup. Many other factors seem to affect how valuable adjusting the roll centre is in certain situations.
Yes but remember that the roll centres F/R affect the cars handling immediately because the car has to be rolling before any of the other tunning options such as shocks, springs, swaybars etc come into affect. I would try the roll centres first and then fine tune with springs/oils etc. This is what I have always done and it seems to work for me
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Old 02-27-2006, 01:18 AM   #13038
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Originally Posted by Jack2
well, for starters, where I come from, thats no medium size track. That looks quite large to me........ Is that track in NZ ?

I will PM you a setup
Lol it looks a little larger in the photo but it is still quite big
Yeah its in North harbour, the most northern part of Auckland.
You should come down for the HD/RL international!
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Old 02-27-2006, 03:05 AM   #13039
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SchuMi2
Yes but remember that the roll centres F/R affect the cars handling immediately because the car has to be rolling before any of the other tunning options such as shocks, springs, swaybars etc come into affect. I would try the roll centres first and then fine tune with springs/oils etc. This is what I have always done and it seems to work for me
Yes, RC is almost always the first thing I will adjust too.
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Old 02-27-2006, 03:58 AM   #13040
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Hello, I plan to buy a Refine 2, can you tell me which toe blocks are included in the kit???
Also is there a direct pulley for the spool??

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Old 02-27-2006, 05:33 AM   #13041
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Is this new springs : TAM53440AO to replace the regular ones???
Or are they for carpet with foam???

Thanks
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Old 02-27-2006, 05:41 AM   #13042
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugo
Hello, I plan to buy a Refine 2, can you tell me which toe blocks are included in the kit???
Also is there a direct pulley for the spool??

Blocks included with MSX:

1 x XD
1 x XB
1 x A
2 x B

The spool comes without a pulley. It uses the same pulley as the front one way, part# 51054 TRF415 Front One-Way Pulley - 35T

The part# for the direct center pulley is #53708 TRF415 Direct Center Pulley
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Old 02-27-2006, 05:46 AM   #13043
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Thanks for the answer.
Also I'd like to know if the kit comes with the 1° or 0° aluminium rear hubs.

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Old 02-27-2006, 07:05 AM   #13044
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Default Bender,

Hi Bender,

Thanks for reading my XXXMAIN setup guide. You are correct in saying that the different setup guides out there will sometimes contradict each other. The reason for this from my experience, as I tried to explain in my book, but maybe not well enough is that there are many examples in setting up a car when the same type of change will produce different results. It's about finding the "sweet spot" of an adjustment. So the bottom line is all the setup books are correct given the right combination of setup and track conditions.

For example it is generally agreed that going with a softer spring will make that end of the car have more grip. e.g. put softer springs on the rear and we will have more grip. However we can go too soft which will take away grip.

Roll center is a tricky thing as well. If we add more roll center in the front then the car will typically have more steering but if we go too far with the roll center that end of the car can start to push. Also when trying to correct the car from traction rolling somtimes I have found that more roll (i.e. lower rc) will reduce the car's tendency to flip and sometimes the opposite happens, depending on the spring rates, foam v.s. rubber tires etc. From my experience if you have a heavy spring rate you will tend to want a low rc (more roll) and if you have a very very light spring rate you will want a higher rc (less roll), but again this does not always work. For example at a roar nats carpet rubber race in stockton a few years back I found a high rc with soft springs (15lbs) prevented the traction rolling issue I was having. When I tried that same approach at vegas last year (again on rubber tires) the car still flipped. When I when up on the spring rate, took off the sway bars, decreased the cast and allowed more roll (lower rc) the car stopped flipping.Vegas had more grip than stockton because there was no foam class in stockton at the time.

In the end my book provides a starting point to understand setup adjustments, but we need to gain setup experience to truly know when it will go one way or the other, by constantly making adjustments, seeing the results and adding that you your experience base. But this is one of the things makes our hobby so much fun, because finding that perfect setup is very challenging.

f1larry - thanks for the reference to my book.
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Last edited by Martin Crisp; 02-27-2006 at 07:18 AM.
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Old 02-27-2006, 07:17 AM   #13045
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Default Diff covers for 415

Quote:
Originally Posted by veecee
I’ve read that some of you have been running ceramic diff balls and adapting some covers to make the diffs last longer between rebuilds. Can someone describe this in more details, preferably with part numbers? Sorry if this has been covered before.

Thanks,

Vincent
Atlas diff covers for 415 (MH7-TRF) See attached picture.

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Old 02-27-2006, 07:20 AM   #13046
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Default ceramic diff balls

yeah...ever since I switched to ceramic diff balls, I just keep reusing the same diff balls everytime I rebuild the diff. I seem to be able to rebuild the diff about 10 times before I replace the diff balls.
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Old 02-27-2006, 07:38 AM   #13047
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Martin, thanks for the explaination...(and the book)

Perhaps a little clarification: in your definition: High rollcenter (rc) = more or less shims under the toe-in blocks?

I've always found that for my driving style, even in fuel on-road. I like to run the inner hinge pins higher than most other drivers. (same effect as adding shims under the toe-in blocks)

Problem is everytime someone asks me what's your roll center? I never know how the answer them? (ie: low or high rc?)
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Old 02-27-2006, 07:42 AM   #13048
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugo
Is this new springs : TAM53440AO to replace the regular ones???
Or are they for carpet with foam???

Thanks
Any answer???
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Old 02-27-2006, 07:42 AM   #13049
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugo
Thanks for the answer.
Also I'd like to know if the kit comes with the 1° or 0° aluminium rear hubs.

Any answer???
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Old 02-27-2006, 07:43 AM   #13050
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I believe Martin is reffering to the upper camberlink position, not the hinge pin carriers. Although those will also slightly alter roll center as well.
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