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Old 01-17-2006, 10:32 AM   #12301
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Originally Posted by Carl Giordano
HEy Ed, is the set-up sheet for Martin with Foam our rubber tires...considering the use of a front one-way...i would think its rubber???please advise....thanks again
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Old 01-17-2006, 10:42 AM   #12302
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Originally Posted by rcoldman

Which parts break most frequently? (C-hubs, A-arms, Steering Blocks, etc.)
I would stock the normal things as any other TC...set of front & rears arms, c-hubs, steering knuckles.

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Originally Posted by rcoldman
Where do you get parts? Overseas? USA? (Everyone seems to be out of parts all the time, including Tamiya USA)
speedtechrc.com
precisionrc.com
Rainbox 10
http://www.rainbowten.co.jp/english/index.html - Can be tricky to order at first but you get used to it and they stock a good number or parts.

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Originally Posted by rcoldman
Which Arms/C-hubs come with the Refine 2? (LW, Hard, Standard?)
LW

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Originally Posted by rcoldman
Which dealer actually has the Yokomo parts in Stock for the Front Diff conversion?
Rumour is the Tamiya diff may be out in Feb. so maybe just wait until that time. If not between speedtechrc and the yokomousa website you should be able to get everything you need.
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Old 01-17-2006, 10:44 AM   #12303
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Giordano
After this friday's run with my MSX, I'm a broken man...I basically have an 3mm chassis with standard arms and the MSX conversion. (I also have a new R2 kit unbuilt.)

I've become desperate...I can't seem to find a base set-up to start with....or make inprovements

According to everyone I race with...the car lloks good on the track...very stable...just seems to be 4-7 tenths per lap off the pass from guys I'm usually on pace with in fuel on-road....


My problem is I do not get enough stick time to work out my problems...so I need a chassis with a good starting point to work with....everyone in the area..(other than Steve) runs Xray's...I have no one to go to for help with the Tamiya...

In our area we race on foam tires....

I'm at a cross raod....I need to start all over....what should I do???
1.) re-set my 3mm / standard arms / MSX convers. / ball diff with a new base set-up??
2.) build the R2 kit with LWT arms / ball diff
3.) finish building the Xray T2 I picked up friday night after getting my ass handed to me.... / sell all my TRF stuff

Sincerely....a desperate nitro guy looking to get back some respect in electric racing...
What I found is untill the 4mm chassis comes out for the MSX its not a good Foam car and the T2 will be a faster car "I will buy it from U I might add " I picked up a rdx with a 3.9mm chassis and wow no tweak issues the 415 tweaks EZ we just started running foam at my local track and 3 guys run the 415's and the lap times r not there I'm sure the 415 will do well but it will take the right driver and a lot of work to get as Dialed as a T2 or RDX so, till the 4mm chassis I feel the 415MSX is a very good car for rubber heck it won the Novak Stock rubber class this year the 4mm chassis is due out late Feb
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Old 01-17-2006, 11:15 AM   #12304
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Originally Posted by Carl Giordano
3.) finish building the Xray T2 I picked up friday night after getting my ass handed to me.... / sell all my TRF stuff
Who's the XRay slut now!
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Old 01-17-2006, 11:24 AM   #12305
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Originally Posted by rcoldman
Hello All,

I've been looking to purchase a new touring car and am leaning towards the TRF415 MSX Refine 2. Beautiful car, excellent quality, and great handling. I've read this thread and have some basic questions for anyone that owns the Refine 2:

Which parts break most frequently? (C-hubs, A-arms, Steering Blocks, etc.)

What parts do you always carry with you?

Where do you get parts? Overseas? USA? (Everyone seems to be out of parts all the time, including Tamiya USA)

Which Arms/C-hubs come with the Refine 2? (LW, Hard, Standard?)

Which dealer actually has the Yokomo parts in Stock for the Front Diff conversion?

Thanks in advance for the assistance.
Right, the parts that needs to be changed from stock are the aluminium turnbuckles, I always replace them with titanium ones. Yes they are heavier but they don't bend or break.

The parts that I carry are C-Hubs, Front hubs, Wishbones and hinge pins. In a year running the car with the LW suspension, I have broken 2 front wishbones, 1 C-hub and a few front hubs (until i changed them for aluminium ones). Hinge pins bends really easy and when they are the car is pants, so make sure to check them if you take a hit.
All in all even the LW suspension is very durable to be honest.
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Old 01-17-2006, 11:31 AM   #12306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Giordano
After this friday's run with my MSX, I'm a broken man...I basically have an 3mm chassis with standard arms and the MSX conversion. (I also have a new R2 kit unbuilt.)

I've become desperate...I can't seem to find a base set-up to start with....or make inprovements

According to everyone I race with...the car lloks good on the track...very stable...just seems to be 4-7 tenths per lap off the pass from guys I'm usually on pace with in fuel on-road....


My problem is I do not get enough stick time to work out my problems...so I need a chassis with a good starting point to work with....everyone in the area..(other than Steve) runs Xray's...I have no one to go to for help with the Tamiya...

In our area we race on foam tires....

I'm at a cross raod....I need to start all over....what should I do???
1.) re-set my 3mm / standard arms / MSX convers. / ball diff with a new base set-up??
2.) build the R2 kit with LWT arms / ball diff
3.) finish building the Xray T2 I picked up friday night after getting my ass handed to me.... / sell all my TRF stuff

Sincerely....a desperate nitro guy looking to get back some respect in electric racing...
I assume you don't use the stiffener at the front of the rear bulkheads since you don't have the hole in your chassis. Here's an idea then, take the chassis out, and use the MSX chassis as a template to drill the extra hole. Make sure the holes of both chassis are well aligned otherwise you'll end up with a permanent tweak. I used screws and nuts to stick them together and made sure the holes were well aligned using one of my wrenches and passing it through a hole at one end of the chassis, tighten the bolts at that end, then do the same on the other end. Worked a treat on mine.

Also, it looks like you need more steering. How about you post your setup here and we'll see what we can do.

Another solution is you try Charlie Suangka's setup from one of the big races (can't remember which one), was with LW suspension, he posted it on this thread so if make a search for the poster suangka you should find it.
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Old 01-17-2006, 11:42 AM   #12307
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You could also try Marc R's IIC setup that was on here a few pages ago
(just ignore the 4mm chassis bit)

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Old 01-17-2006, 11:50 AM   #12308
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just a few differences I noticed from previous set-up

From what I can remember:
Fr: 60 wt oil / purple ASC spring / B&A "bridge" - flat on chassis / standard arms / red foam in shock / 4 degree castor / ball diff tight / Parma Cyan

RR: 60 wt oil / red ASC spring / A&A blocks - flat on chassis / standard arms / red foam in shock / 1 degree toe alum block / Parma Magenta

I will admit...that earlier posts I discounted the concern relating to tweak...I will lossen everything and reset....

Things I will change:
I notice someone posted d/d fr & b/d rear...I will revisit this.

Thanks for the help
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Old 01-17-2006, 12:04 PM   #12309
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Giordano
just a few differences I noticed from previous set-up

From what I can remember:
Fr: 60 wt oil / purple ASC spring / B&A "bridge" - flat on chassis / standard arms / red foam in shock / 4 degree castor / ball diff tight / Parma Cyan

RR: 60 wt oil / red ASC spring / A&A blocks - flat on chassis / standard arms / red foam in shock / 1 degree toe alum block / Parma Magenta

I will admit...that earlier posts I discounted the concern relating to tweak...I will lossen everything and reset....

Things I will change:
I notice someone posted d/d fr & b/d rear...I will revisit this.

Thanks for the help
B-A front and A-A rear sounds wrong to me tbh, especially with the LW suspension. I'd go for C-D on the rear, and maybe C-A on the front, try to get a bit more mid corner steering with more inboard toe out on the front.

Also, have you checked that you have the front hubs the proper way around ? There is a moulding which says C1 or C2 on them, on the inside next to the ball joints mounts. It's not that there's a proper way, but it changes bump steer and roll centre on the front depending which way you have them. Speaking of which, bump steer has to be changed between the LW and the std suspension, so the amount of shims under the ball nuts on the steering plates have to be changed.
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Old 01-17-2006, 12:40 PM   #12310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRF415boy
B-A front and A-A rear sounds wrong to me tbh, especially with the LW suspension. I'd go for C-D on the rear, and maybe C-A on the front, try to get a bit more mid corner steering with more inboard toe out on the front.

Also, have you checked that you have the front hubs the proper way around ? There is a moulding which says C1 or C2 on them, on the inside next to the ball joints mounts. It's not that there's a proper way, but it changes bump steer and roll centre on the front depending which way you have them. Speaking of which, bump steer has to be changed between the LW and the std suspension, so the amount of shims under the ball nuts on the steering plates have to be changed.
Just learning here, I got my 415 used and in front it has 1D-1D and rear 1D 1C (where c is the farthest block on the rear). I havent ran the car yet but can you comment on this suspension block setup?
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Old 01-17-2006, 12:59 PM   #12311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by natskiboy
Just learning here, I got my 415 used and in front it has 1D-1D and rear 1D 1C (where c is the farthest block on the rear). I havent ran the car yet but can you comment on this suspension block setup?
Well it means you have 0.5 in board toe out on the rear, which you really don't want to have. As i said earlier, the blocks goes from narrowest to widest :

XD XC XB XA X A B C D and there is a 0.5 toe difference between them.

Say your 415 is box stock, with standard suspension, it has 2 outboard toe (in the rear hubs) and the stock setup for it is B-D on the rear, where D is the furter back block, it means you have 3 rear toe : 2 outboard (in the hubs) and 1 inboard (from the blocks).

Hope this helps.
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Old 01-17-2006, 01:05 PM   #12312
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Thanks to all for the responses regarding 415 parts, etc.

I had planned using my Refine 2 for both Carpet and Asphalt racing (both in the modified class). This started me thinking about whether or not the stock Refine 2 has the front wheel clearance to run 28mm foam tires for carpet. I noticed on Marc Rheinard's setup that he was using 4mm wheel hubs with .5 spacers.

Are these wheel hubs and shims stock in the Refine 2 or would I need to order them as additional items?

Are there any other parts necessary to run 28mm foams?

BTW - I was going to design/cut my own CF upper plate and chassis similar to Joe's to keep the car as stiff as possible (With counter sunk metric screws....)

Thanks again.
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Old 01-17-2006, 01:09 PM   #12313
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Originally Posted by TRF415boy
Well it means you have 0.5 in board toe out on the rear, which you really don't want to have. As i said earlier, the blocks goes from narrowest to widest :

XD XC XB XA X A B C D and there is a 0.5 toe difference between them.

Say your 415 is box stock, with standard suspension, it has 2 outboard toe (in the rear hubs) and the stock setup for it is B-D on the rear, where D is the furter back block, it means you have 3 rear toe : 2 outboard (in the hubs) and 1 inboard (from the blocks).

Hope this helps.
Im still confused, I know its good to run -2 deg toe in at the rear and 0 or -1 deg in front. What setup will accomplish this
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Old 01-17-2006, 01:44 PM   #12314
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcoldman
BTW - I was going to design/cut my own CF upper plate and chassis similar to Joe's to keep the car as stiff as possible (With counter sunk metric screws....)
Same here. Just ordered the CF. Should have some pics by the weekend.
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Old 01-17-2006, 02:26 PM   #12315
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rcoldman
If you plan to run foams with a Tamiya you have to use different front knuckles to clear a 28mm foam. Most use HPI Pro/Cyclone front knuckles...note that the bearing size is different on the HPI and Tamiya knuckles.



Quote:
Originally Posted by natskiboy
Im still confused, I know its good to run -2 deg toe in at the rear and 0 or -1 deg in front. What setup will accomplish this
If what you previously wrote is correct the order of your pivot blocks looks like this from front to back of car...

DD DC

If that were the case and say you had 0deg rear hubs....you would be running with "TOE OUT".

Maybe you just typed it wrong and it should read...

DD CD

That would make more sense and give you "TOE IN" which is normal.

Hope that makes some sense. Once you get used to the whole Tamiya block thing it will be easier to understand.

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