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Old 01-08-2006, 01:10 PM   #12106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GroffBall
Has anyone ever tried to put the STD suspension on a MS car. I know the suspension mounts are closer together just wondering if it will work before I start ripping cars apart. I'm grasping for straws trying to get this car to steer on a very high grip asphalt track. Its so sticky your feet stick when you walk. If anybody has an setup advise it would be greatly appreciated I've never been this stumped before.
Hello Mister,

Whats your current setup?
Please let me know so we can work from there!!
Also, where do you want more steering, inn, out, mid, low speed, high speed??
In such High grip conditions the "Ride Honda Accord" works really good, frees up the whole car!!
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Old 01-08-2006, 01:26 PM   #12107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GroffBall
Its a large indoor asphalt track with forgiving pipes, but I was just thinking about trying the old suspension. HPI stuff is out since its hard to find around here and I'd like to stick with Tamiya Stuff. I'm grasping for straws here I feel like I've been chasing my tail around for the last 2 months with this car. I'm about to go nuts! I went from fighting for the win every week to fighting to make the A.
please post your set up also what class you do.
with a little work i find the tamiya easy to set up to any condition,.use the lwt suspesion on asphelt and old on carpet
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Old 01-08-2006, 01:36 PM   #12108
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I run mostly stock class 19t occasionally. The Car feels like its rolling in the corners but its really sluggish making the transition through the chicane sections. It needs steering mid to exit it dives in pretty well but setting up for the next corner is a pain. Currently I'm running Blue Springs the Whole way around, yellow sways, 3mm spacer under the front upper arm, 1mm under rear upper arm. Middle position in all lower arms, Position 2 in the front tower, Position 3 in the rear tower. Blocks are 1C (FF) 1A (FR) 1X (RF) 1B(RR). Its an MS car I'm running 2 deg castor blocks, a spool, outer hole in the rear hub carrier. 40 wt front shock oil 35 rear with 2 hole pistions. Also I'm running a Stratus 3.0 AP or a Mazda 6. In all honesty though my car just feels like crap I need a whole new starting point. For me right now a one way is out because the track layout is very tight and I've never really used a one way so this layout isn't a good one to learn on. I've spent so much time the last couple months trying to help everybody else out somewhere along the way I forgot how to work on my own car. I've looked at try hards site and am thinking of trying randy castors socal setup except using a spool. I've been doing this for a long time so no need to newbieize anything. I understand the concepts I just really need a new starting point.

Thanks So much guys. Tamiya guys are always like one big family
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Old 01-08-2006, 01:53 PM   #12109
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First, rise your front and rear shocks up one hole on the tower and go to yellow springs all around. Use 2mm shim under front camberlink. Reduce front shock oil to 35wt, rear to 30wt. Go to 4deg castor blocks and put 0.5mm shim under your FR block to give some antidive.
Also, using 0deg rear hub and XB-B rear blocks will give an more agressive car and also make it square up better!!

Hope this will help!!
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Old 01-08-2006, 02:02 PM   #12110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GroffBall
I run mostly stock class 19t occasionally. The Car feels like its rolling in the corners but its really sluggish making the transition through the chicane sections. It needs steering mid to exit it dives in pretty well but setting up for the next corner is a pain. Currently I'm running Blue Springs the Whole way around, yellow sways, 3mm spacer under the front upper arm, 1mm under rear upper arm. Middle position in all lower arms, Position 2 in the front tower, Position 3 in the rear tower. Blocks are 1C (FF) 1A (FR) 1X (RF) 1B(RR). Its an MS car I'm running 2 deg castor blocks, a spool, outer hole in the rear hub carrier. 40 wt front shock oil 35 rear with 2 hole pistions. Also I'm running a Stratus 3.0 AP or a Mazda 6. In all honesty though my car just feels like crap I need a whole new starting point. For me right now a one way is out because the track layout is very tight and I've never really used a one way so this layout isn't a good one to learn on. I've spent so much time the last couple months trying to help everybody else out somewhere along the way I forgot how to work on my own car. I've looked at try hards site and am thinking of trying randy castors socal setup except using a spool. I've been doing this for a long time so no need to newbieize anything. I understand the concepts I just really need a new starting point.

Thanks So much guys. Tamiya guys are always like one big family
ok,try this as a starting point which most of us use here in the uk
front
shock oil 35
piston 3 hole
springs HPI silver [tamiya yellow i guess is closest]
spacers under top link 3mm
shock position on tower 3rd hole in
shockk position on wishbone middle hole
caster;4deg
2 deg negative camber
front bock b rear block a
no front anti roll bars,makes car lazy.
wheelbase;1.5mm oof spacers behind wishbone
wheel spacers 1 mm stock hex
ride height 5mm
5.5mm droop on gauge
spool and centre locked pulley
rear
shock oil 30
shock piston 3 hole
spring HPI silver [yellow tamiya]
spacers under top link inner 1mm
spacers under top link on hub 2mm
shock position on tower 2nd hole in
shock positioon on wishbone middle
2 deg negative camber
o deg aluminium hubs
toe block front 1xa rear c
wheelbase 2mm of spacers in front of wishbone.
wheelspacers 2mm.
ride height 5.5 mm
6mm droop on gauge
tyres cs22
inserts;jb yellow
wheel proline.
motor lrp fusion 4.1 8*2
gearing 102 tooth spur and 27 tooth pinion.
dodge 2 shell stock wing.
if i missed anything then ask.
this was on med bite ashphelt
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Old 01-08-2006, 02:15 PM   #12111
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JB Yellow inserts??, sounds like a carpet setup.....
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Old 01-08-2006, 02:15 PM   #12112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eirik
First, rise your front and rear shocks up one hole on the tower and go to yellow springs all around. Use 2mm shim under front camberlink. Reduce front shock oil to 35wt, rear to 30wt. Go to 4deg castor blocks and put 0.5mm shim under your FR block to give some antidive.
Also, using 0deg rear hub and XB-B rear blocks will give an more agressive car and also make it square up better!!

Hope this will help!!
That all makes sense, I did forget to mention I am running a .5mm shim under the FR Block... Question though, this might sound stupid but how much of a difference is running the XB-B gonna make vs what I'm running now i currently have the 0 degree rear hub on. Reason I ask is I would have to buy and XB block and all dont really want to make an order out to California just for that block and even if I did I wouldn't have it for this weekend anyway. I don't have any of the X series blocks.

TRF thanks for your setup too, that sounds like that would work very well at the other track I run at where its low to med bite.

If you guys want to see my car actually run go the Collesium thread in the racing forum somebody just posted a video up my car is the first one running, you will see a car later on in the video that looks like mine but its actually my TA04 I pulled out to run the B main with since I didn't want to punish my 415 that badly. This last week was the first time in probably 10 years I havn't made the A
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Old 01-08-2006, 02:47 PM   #12113
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GroffBall,

Oh, I thought you used the std 1deg hubs, then you are only using 1.5deg toe inn then.....

Using the narrower blocks will make the rear end roll a bit more giving you more rear traction!
I will suggest you try running 1X-1C rear blocks and try the other changes I mentioned, it will give you more steering for sure and also make your car square up faster! Making the car square up fast is very important on a thight track!!
Also, if you are not using the red foam thing on top of the bladders, put them inn.... will also make the car more agressive, not so lazy
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Old 01-08-2006, 03:11 PM   #12114
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Hey guys,
Tried the shock tweak today, and I have to say it deffiently improved the car.
Was running on high grip carpet, and the setup I'll post later.
The only thing I changed between two runs was removing the foam, and increasing the oil (50wt > 60wt).
Basically, the car felt much smoother to drive, lost some of it's twitchyness, and I could roll it into the turns better (helpful when runing dual 1-ways).
A number of my mates noted how smooth, quick and easy to drive the car looked, and it deffiently felt it on the sticks...
Didn't have a lot of luck in Q, just scraped the B final (should have been in the A with the lap times, just bad luck and silly driver errors). But from 10th on the grid, by the end of the 1st lap, up to 3rd. 2nd lap, up to 2nd, and catching 1st
Didn't last unfortuantly, made a mistake (my error), which just so happened to be in front of the slowest marshal in the world... I don't normally shout or blame marshals (hey, it was me who put the car there anyway), but this was ridiculous, didn't put any effot in to get the car, just wandered over to the car... Any other marshal point and I might still have been in with a chance of at least a podium spot. Anyway, pushed too hard trying to catch up, and broke the car

Good news is though, I know the cars quick, I'm getting quicker, and I've got confidence in it too Roll on DV next weekend

Later
Ed

P.S. I'm going to try the different shocks next week too, I have a feeling it should work at Don Valley quite well too, given the surface is even smoother than the carpet track I was on today.
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Old 01-08-2006, 03:32 PM   #12115
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Tryhard, that is interesting to read about the twitchiness has been fixed with what you have done. I usually run 2 hole pistons with 40wt oil and the foam (I thought you had to run the foam all the time), and found my car twitchy. Might switch to three hole pistons (too bad I have only got three spare TRF shocks, or I'd do a full set three hole without having to screw around with my current shocks).
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Old 01-08-2006, 04:57 PM   #12116
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I pretty much run 3 hole pistons everywhere.

Outdoors I tend to use 40wt oil, indoors 50 or 60wt.
The car today did seem improved without the foam, so I think it's the ticket for carpet (I'm sure Erik could help confirm this), not so sure about outdoors though. I'd have to try it myself first, but I have a suspecsion that because the rebound is lower, it might not handle bumps so well... something to try anywho.

Later
Ed
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Old 01-08-2006, 05:13 PM   #12117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TryHard
I pretty much run 3 hole pistons everywhere.

Outdoors I tend to use 40wt oil, indoors 50 or 60wt.
The car today did seem improved without the foam, so I think it's the ticket for carpet (I'm sure Erik could help confirm this), not so sure about outdoors though. I'd have to try it myself first, but I have a suspecsion that because the rebound is lower, it might not handle bumps so well... something to try anywho.

Later
Ed
I have a second set of shocks which I want to try without the foam. So if I take the foam out do I need to change to 10w lighter or 10w heavier oil?

By my understanding, the foam increases how quick the shocks rebound, so if you don't have it in, then you would need lighter oil to compensate for it. Is this right

Tryhard, what is the chance of putting up a "tips" section on your website which deals with things like this plus all the other handling notes all the Tamiya drivers have found. It would be very handy to have this info all in one place
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Old 01-08-2006, 05:17 PM   #12118
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Ed just to say i'm building the spare shock's re your posts and our conversation. Hope it will make the car even better
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Old 01-08-2006, 08:04 PM   #12119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bender
I have a second set of shocks which I want to try without the foam. So if I take the foam out do I need to change to 10w lighter or 10w heavier oil?

By my understanding, the foam increases how quick the shocks rebound, so if you don't have it in, then you would need lighter oil to compensate for it. Is this right

Tryhard, what is the chance of putting up a "tips" section on your website which deals with things like this plus all the other handling notes all the Tamiya drivers have found. It would be very handy to have this info all in one place
I think it depends on how you want the car to behave. With the foam in, the shocks will rebound more but they also have resistance in compression. So I guess if you want to maintain a similar feel in compression, you would probably want to go to a heavier oil. I think that's why Tryhard went to a higher wt oil.
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Old 01-08-2006, 08:33 PM   #12120
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ok guys a setup question:

running a converted 415 to msx with 3 hole pistons
losi 60 wt oil all the way around.
1c 1a frt blocks 1a 1d rear blocks
4deg. blocks
white frt springs yellow rear springs
2deg camber all 4 wheels
blue frt. sway bar
2mm shim on frt and rear links
0deg rear hubs



the problem is the car is real slow to enter shap corners at any decent speed. The car is awesome through the huge sweeper we have but slow giong into the tight "s" section

Any help would be great. Thanks.
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