R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10-20-2005, 12:05 PM   #10816
Mal
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 471
Default

I am running the delrin outdrives ... I've had at least 30 battery packs through my delrin spool and have yet to see any notching.
Mal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2005, 12:20 PM   #10817
Tech Addict
 
JRRobiso's Avatar
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 659
Send a message via Yahoo to JRRobiso
Arrow

Quote:
Originally Posted by quantum
this is going to seem like a silly question (probably been asked before too), but i put on my thick skin and ask... will the msx conversion kit work on the original 415 (the non-MS version)

i gather that the MSX kit will still have somethings that the converted chassis' won't have (the stiffener post, and something else i think)
is that right?

thanks
Yes the MS conv kit will fit the original 415 w/ the original arms as well. I installed the kit on my 415 yesterday. I already had the light weight rev arms before installing the kit and after the installation, I looked at the positioning of the rev arms & took one of the standard arms & layed it on top of the current position & found no problems with the new F/R bulkheads. The only thing that I could see you need to do is to fine tune & adjust the linkages/spacers.

Regarding the MSX Refine kit (December release), the only thing that was pointed out from the pictures from the Tokyo hobby show last month was the post stiffener. The other parts they included (new rear adjustable diff) was going to be released as an option part.
__________________
TAOB Racing Team (2004) | Team Driver #101
TRF415MSX | TRF415MRE | TRF801X/XT | K V1 RRR Evo WCE | K IGT2 Audi A4 DTM | AE SC10 4X4
AKA | Airtronics M11 | Spektrum Pro | Speed Passion BL | OS Engines | Sidewinder Fuel | Ko Propo/JR HV/Savox Servos | MuchMore Racing | Xenon Racing | Speedmind | Sorex Tires | Twister Tires
JRRobiso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2005, 01:19 PM   #10818
Mal
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 471
Default

I don't understand why having a delrin spool or having a steel spool would make any difference in why the car would chatter. From exepereince, I've found that cars using foams and a spool will chatter more. This is because foam tires have more traction meaning they slip less. When taking corners the inside tire and the outside tire spin at different rates (With a normal diff). When you run a spool the tires are forced to spin at the same rate, this is what causes the chatter.

Last edited by Mal; 10-20-2005 at 01:35 PM.
Mal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2005, 01:38 PM   #10819
Tech Addict
 
JRRobiso's Avatar
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 659
Send a message via Yahoo to JRRobiso
Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mal
I don't understand why having a delrin spool or having a steel spool would make any difference in why the car would chatter. From exepereince, I've found that cars using foams and a spool will chatter a more. This is because foam tires have more traction meaning they slip less. When taking corners the inside tire and the outside tire spin at different rates (With a normal diff). When you run a spool the tires are forced to spin at the same rate, this is what causes the chatter.
The chatter issue even up to today, has not been solved. I guess the only way to deal with it is to lessen the chatter based on previous suggestions posted on this thread by club/factory drivers. One suggestion that sort of helped me to lessen the chatter was to reduce the throw (dual rate) on the steering. I normally have mine set between 60-65 % & it does lessen the chatter compared to having it at 100% rate without negatively affecting my turn-in radius into the corners at my LH track.
__________________
TAOB Racing Team (2004) | Team Driver #101
TRF415MSX | TRF415MRE | TRF801X/XT | K V1 RRR Evo WCE | K IGT2 Audi A4 DTM | AE SC10 4X4
AKA | Airtronics M11 | Spektrum Pro | Speed Passion BL | OS Engines | Sidewinder Fuel | Ko Propo/JR HV/Savox Servos | MuchMore Racing | Xenon Racing | Speedmind | Sorex Tires | Twister Tires
JRRobiso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2005, 01:40 PM   #10820
Tech Elite
 
Customworksking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Springfield ILLINOIS
Posts: 3,639
Trader Rating: 73 (100%+)
Default chatter

chatter not chadder oopos anyway the spoon is new so no ware yet I will run it see how it works if anything I will go back to the 1way I feel 1ways may be faster anyway....thanks
__________________
Team Xray | RC America| Hudy |Jaco |AKA
Customworksking is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2005, 01:57 PM   #10821
Tech Elite
 
Customworksking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Springfield ILLINOIS
Posts: 3,639
Trader Rating: 73 (100%+)
Default show

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRRobiso
Yes the MS conv kit will fit the original 415 w/ the original arms as well. I installed the kit on my 415 yesterday. I already had the light weight rev arms before installing the kit and after the installation, I looked at the positioning of the rev arms & took one of the standard arms & layed it on top of the current position & found no problems with the new F/R bulkheads. The only thing that I could see you need to do is to fine tune & adjust the linkages/spacers.

Regarding the MSX Refine kit (December release), the only thing that was pointed out from the pictures from the Tokyo hobby show last month was the post stiffener. The other parts they included (new rear adjustable diff) was going to be released as an option part.
can u tell me where u seen the Tokyo show pics .....
__________________
Team Xray | RC America| Hudy |Jaco |AKA
Customworksking is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2005, 02:01 PM   #10822
Tech Fanatic
 
Martin Crisp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 827
Default chatter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Customworksking
I put in the spool not sure if it matters but now I have a bad chadder when I turn the ft ide say about 1/2 to 3/4 full turn the cvd may have a 1mm of slop otherwise I got out all the slop and the bearings are new everything is lubed not sure whats up...
Spools in general can make the car chatter more. I found the steel spools chatter much worse than then delrin spools. I don't know exactly why, but they do. Perhaps it is the difference in material or simply a difference in tolerances. The universals can only handle so much steering angle before the pin binds up the universal and causes the chatter. By moving the front arms as far back as possible this helps reduce the steering angle demanded from the universals, which can reduce the chatter. Also, if the pin itself has been worn a little bit this can increase the chatter. For some reason, some universals seem to produce less chatter than others even when both are new. I am not sure why this happens but it does. One final point is that the pins in the swing shaft that fit into the groves of the outdrive are also critical if they are no longer round and are worn down flat on one side then this also increases the chatter.

hope that helps.
__________________
Martin Crisp
Power-Story.com | LearnSetup.com
Martin Crisp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2005, 02:04 PM   #10823
Buyer Beware
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 332
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Customworksking
can u tell me where u seen the Tokyo show pics .....
where are the pics?of this show that shows the new MSX?
HELLOkitty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2005, 02:05 PM   #10824
Tech Master
 
TRF415boy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,857
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mal
I don't understand why having a delrin spool or having a steel spool would make any difference in why the car would chatter. From exepereince, I've found that cars using foams and a spool will chatter more. This is because foam tires have more traction meaning they slip less. When taking corners the inside tire and the outside tire spin at different rates (With a normal diff). When you run a spool the tires are forced to spin at the same rate, this is what causes the chatter.
No matter if you're using a diff, spool or one way, if you steer to one side the driveshafts will chatter, that's a FACT and it's due to the DESIGN of the driveshafts.

Now, you don't FEEL it with a diff or one way, because there is some give away with them. They allow the driveshafts to rotate at their own speed (which oscillates when you steer even if your keep the throttle constant), thus you don't feel the chatter on the wheel side.

Try this easy test : have your car sit all 4 wheels in the air (with tyres on), give a bit of throttle with the trim so that the motor turns at reasonable speed. Now steer left to right, you'll hear the driveshafts making noise. That's chatter, the wheels are trying to keep turning at the same speed because of their inertia, while the driveshafts are trying to make them have their speed oscillate. Even with a diff or one way you should be able to hear it when doing that test.

The reason why you FEEL it with a spool, especially a steel spool, is that there is NO give away. No matter what, the spool will have the driveshafts rotating at constant speed, and because of this, the wheel's rotating speed will oscillate more than with a diff or one way (or delrin spool, since it will not be as stiff as a steel spool). If you put the car on the track, you have a drivetrain that wants to rotate at constant speed, and wheels that wants to rotate too at constant speed, and between them, driveshafts that are trying to change their speed constantly.

This is why it chatters only with a spool, it has NOTHING to do with the difference of radii between the inside and outside wheel, that only puts more strain on the driveshafts, along with taking some of the mid corner steering.
TRF415boy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2005, 02:24 PM   #10825
Mal
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 471
Default

Well ... what ever the reason for the chatter ... There are two of us using spools at our track. I'm using the delrin spool and my friend is using the speedtech steel spool. Neither one makes noise while cornering ... if there is a noise it's not a noise you can hear while the car is on the track. This isn't a big track either, it's an indoor 45x85 carpet track.

One thing that I have noticed is the variation of quality from CVD to CVD. I've noticed some have CVDs that have a notchy feeling when you pivot them at a certain angle. I've also noticed other CVDs that aren't notchy at all, they spin free even at full steering lock.
Mal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2005, 02:50 PM   #10826
Tech Addict
 
JRRobiso's Avatar
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 659
Send a message via Yahoo to JRRobiso
Arrow

Tokyo Hobby Pics of TRF415MSX

Pictures of kit came from this thread : Tokyo Hobby Show
Attached Thumbnails
Tamiya TRF415-img_4857.jpg   Tamiya TRF415-img_4856.jpg   Tamiya TRF415-msxchassis.jpg   Tamiya TRF415-msxwithcentrepost.jpg   Tamiya TRF415-msxdiff.jpg  

__________________
TAOB Racing Team (2004) | Team Driver #101
TRF415MSX | TRF415MRE | TRF801X/XT | K V1 RRR Evo WCE | K IGT2 Audi A4 DTM | AE SC10 4X4
AKA | Airtronics M11 | Spektrum Pro | Speed Passion BL | OS Engines | Sidewinder Fuel | Ko Propo/JR HV/Savox Servos | MuchMore Racing | Xenon Racing | Speedmind | Sorex Tires | Twister Tires
JRRobiso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2005, 02:54 PM   #10827
Buyer Beware
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 332
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRRobiso
Tokyo Hobby Pics of TRF415MSX

Pictures of kit came from this thread : Tokyo Hobby Show
so this is the new full kit?
HELLOkitty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2005, 03:04 PM   #10828
Tech Addict
 
JRRobiso's Avatar
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 659
Send a message via Yahoo to JRRobiso
Default

Tokyo Hobby Pics of TRF415MSX - Continued

The new rear diff assembly is adjustable w/out removing it from the bulkhead & is to be released as an option part, not included in the new MS Refine kit. The last pics shows the difference between the new ctr post that is part of the Refine kit & the one included in the MS conv kit which I think some posts back made their own ctr post from the orig posts that came with the 415/415MS kits.
Attached Thumbnails
Tamiya TRF415-msx.jpg   Tamiya TRF415-msxconversion.jpg  
__________________
TAOB Racing Team (2004) | Team Driver #101
TRF415MSX | TRF415MRE | TRF801X/XT | K V1 RRR Evo WCE | K IGT2 Audi A4 DTM | AE SC10 4X4
AKA | Airtronics M11 | Spektrum Pro | Speed Passion BL | OS Engines | Sidewinder Fuel | Ko Propo/JR HV/Savox Servos | MuchMore Racing | Xenon Racing | Speedmind | Sorex Tires | Twister Tires
JRRobiso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2005, 03:14 PM   #10829
Tech Addict
 
JRRobiso's Avatar
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 659
Send a message via Yahoo to JRRobiso
Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRRobiso
Tokyo Hobby Pics of TRF415MSX - Continued

The new rear diff assembly is adjustable w/out removing it from the bulkhead & is to be released as an option part, not included in the new MS Refine kit. The last pics shows the difference between the new ctr post that is part of the Refine kit & the one included in the MS conv kit which I think some posts back made their own ctr post from the orig posts that came with the 415/415MS kits.
I stand corrected re new rear diff. According to Masa of RC Champ (the link I posted earlier re Tokyo Hobby Show) -

"First from what the guys at Tamiya told me the 415 Refine2 is now call 415MSX. It will be release at the end of the year.

415MSX Conversion
It will not comes with any chassis. Using the same chassis as 415MS.
The picture below shows the new 415MSX chassis. There is a new slot at the motor area and an extra hole for centre post.
Will not comes with the new adjustable diff. The second picture shows the new adjustable diff.
The MSX conversion will not comes with the extended centre post as shown in the 3rd picture as there's no additional holes on the old 415MS chassis to secure it.
The 4th(MSX kit) and 5th(MSX conversion) pictures will clearly explain the difference.

415MSX Kit (Release end of the year.)
Will comes with:
* new chassis
* new rear bulkhead connector with centre post
* new diff
* new blade for U-shaft
* new short blue turnbuckle for anti-roll bar ........"
__________________
TAOB Racing Team (2004) | Team Driver #101
TRF415MSX | TRF415MRE | TRF801X/XT | K V1 RRR Evo WCE | K IGT2 Audi A4 DTM | AE SC10 4X4
AKA | Airtronics M11 | Spektrum Pro | Speed Passion BL | OS Engines | Sidewinder Fuel | Ko Propo/JR HV/Savox Servos | MuchMore Racing | Xenon Racing | Speedmind | Sorex Tires | Twister Tires
JRRobiso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2005, 03:48 PM   #10830
Tech Elite
 
Jack2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,377
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRRobiso
The new rear diff assembly is adjustable w/out removing it from the bulkhead & is to be released as an option part, not included in the new MS Refine kit.
You dont have to remove the diff from the bulkheads with the normal diff, you just have to pop one end of the top rear link off and remove the right rear drive shaft from the diff outdrive and you can adjust the diff. Only takes around 30 seconds.
__________________
Schumacher Mi4CX
Mugen MTX & MRX

"He who dies with the most toys wins" - Phil Harris
Jack2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
TAMIYA TRF415 Xray XB8 R/C Items: For Sale/Trade 32 04-04-2008 08:50 PM
Tamiya TRF415 Crashmaster R/C Items: For Sale/Trade 19 12-13-2006 04:48 PM
Tamiya TRF415 MS NIB koabich R/C Items: For Sale/Trade 8 11-11-2005 07:28 AM
F/S Tamiya TRF415 rraden R/C Items: For Sale/Trade 20 06-10-2005 09:02 PM
Tamiya Evo IV or TRF415 TheDevil Electric On-Road 23 10-15-2004 07:27 PM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 02:02 AM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net