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Old 07-26-2005, 10:49 AM   #9526
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr-s413bt
pps if anyone has any good setups for outdoor asphalt please let me know!
TryHard's a man on fire. Great info!

Here's a setup that I used a while ago with the standard suspension...works well. There was another TRF setup somewhere from the Reedy Race two years ago but I don't know if anybody wrote it down...woops.

*edit* Basically the ride height was 5mm with TakeOff CS27's
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Tamiya TRF415-415setup530.gif  

Last edited by rtypec; 07-26-2005 at 11:31 AM.
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Old 07-26-2005, 11:44 AM   #9527
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TryHard
Forgot one more thing too.....

You say your running on a dusty tarmac track. Something that might help gain grip is removing the chassis posts. It allows the chassis to flex more. Especially useful with the 3mm thick chassis of the std car
yeah whats up with that, doesnt the MS or MSX have a 2.5mm chassis? why did they change?

What exactly is a spool? I have been running full 4wd since I started touring cars about six years ago and have never run a one way on the front. Is it like a locked diff? if it is how does that make the cars cornering ability improve?

Is it better to run 48 or 64 pitch on a 415, or stick with the tamiya pitch?

What exactly do you get in the LW sus set? and are those aluminium arms in the Pro module sus set?

thanks again
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Old 07-26-2005, 12:55 PM   #9528
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markus
what FDR would you guys recommend as a starting point for a johnson/mabuchi 540 motor. If you don't do FDR could you recommend a rollout for this kit motor? The track has about a 50ft straight.

TIA,

Mark

Use between 5.0 and 5.4.
In a 4hour enduro with the 415 I ran at 5.0 with about a 70 foot strait and the motor survived to race race again.
Fred
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Old 07-26-2005, 01:03 PM   #9529
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rtypec
TryHard's a man on fire. Great info!
Basically, when your at home all day,waiting hopefully for any responses to job applications, you have to keep yourself amused.... I' think I've sent off 20 odd CV's over the past week, and so far one response (which was a maybe, in the future)

So I'm on here helping out
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Old 07-26-2005, 01:27 PM   #9530
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Quote:
Originally Posted by junn
yeah whats up with that, doesnt the MS or MSX have a 2.5mm chassis? why did they change?
The MS car has a 2.5mm chassis, and from what information as avaliable on the MSX, that also is 2.5mm. I think the main reason for the change is that most manufactuers are gearing their top spec cars to outdoor rubber racing, and as such tune the thickness of the chassis to alter the amount of grip created. With a thinner chassis, the car will flex more, generating more grip. However the downside to it is that it's generally very hard to control, unlike say springs and dampers (which have known rates etc). I think this is one reason why it's only now coming into fashion, with advancements in the lay-ups of the chassis plates. At least, thats my view.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Junn
What exactly is a spool? I have been running full 4wd since I started touring cars about six years ago and have never run a one way on the front. Is it like a locked diff? if it is how does that make the cars cornering ability improve?
Yup, a spool is a locked diff. Basically, it provides masses of on power steering (much more than a diff, and similar to a 1-way), as both wheels are being driven at the same rate, and as such if one wheel loses the traction, the other is still putting power down (unlike a diff, which in that situation would "diff-out" and have the tration-less wheel spinning away the power).
Another upside is that is gives the car 4 wheel braking, and as such makes it easier to drive, especially in close quaters with other cars.
The one downside is that they lack initial turn-in, as the wheels are both spining at the same rate. However this can be compensated for in suspension set-up, like softer front-springs, some pro-dive, lower front roll centre, or even running a light-weight spool (running an old speedtech spool, and the new tamiya back to back, there was a marked improvement in turn in. I've put this down to the 8 odd gram difference in weight... might not sound much, but it deffiently works!)

When comparing a spool to a one-way, I tend to find that whilst a spool won't produce a lap as ultimately fast as a one-way car, it is more consistent, and also allows different lines to be driven. With a 1-way, you tend to get restricted to running one line all around the track to be fast... which can be a problem if theres someone on that line in a close final... plus you don't have brakes! Hence why for a long time now I've exclusivly been running a spool outdoors.

I'm yet to try a diff (one can be made for the 415 out of old yokomo parts, the info is on the Tamiya USA website), but given the performance of the car with the spool, I doubt I'm going to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by junn
Is it better to run 48 or 64 pitch on a 415, or stick with the tamiya pitch?
I use 64 pitch as i find it better to fine tune gear ratios with it (also the previous car I had, an old MR4-TC, only had a limited range of 48dp spurs, so when I brough this car I switched over to 64, as it wasn't too costly). I think I've only ever stripped one spur through a tightening mesh after a hit, and thats it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by junn
What exactly do you get in the LW sus set? and are those aluminium arms in the Pro module sus set?

thanks again
The alu arms are part of the pro-module setup, they are needed to give the clearance for the shock off the wishbone.
In the LWT set you get:
2 pairs of wishbone (1 front and 1 rear per pair)
2 sets of C-hubs (1 2deg, 1 4deg)
1 pair of steering hubs
1 pair of kingpins (upper joint, and lower piviots)
1 pair of rear hubs (1deg toe)
1 pair of complete front axles (steel bones, 46mm long)
1 pair of complete rear axles (blue alu bones, 46mm long)
8x 950 bearings for axles
Plus loads of shims and spacers, and the ball joints etc
I think thats it

HiH
Ed
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Old 07-27-2005, 07:41 AM   #9531
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Default TRF 415 vs. TA04 Lighweight Suspension Set

What's the difference between the two? Can I use the 415 set for the ta04 and vice-versa? I'm having problems finding the 415 set but there's an available set for the ta04.

Thanks guys in advance.
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Old 07-27-2005, 07:57 AM   #9532
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From whats been said on here, the TA04 set comes with the wrong length dogbones, so you would need to buy the 46mm dogbones. Apart from that, I believe everything else is the same.

HiH
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Old 07-27-2005, 09:35 AM   #9533
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Thanks Try Hard. . . Another question, what's the difference between the std. and MS ahock towers? I'm have a std. 415 which I want to upgrade to a MS and I don't know what essential parts to get.
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Old 07-27-2005, 11:36 AM   #9534
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TryHard
Yup, a spool is a locked diff. Basically, it provides masses of on power steering (much more than a diff, and similar to a 1-way), as both wheels are being driven at the same rate, and as such if one wheel loses the traction, the other is still putting power down (unlike a diff, which in that situation would "diff-out" and have the tration-less wheel spinning away the power).
Another upside is that is gives the car 4 wheel braking, and as such makes it easier to drive, especially in close quaters with other cars.
The one downside is that they lack initial turn-in, as the wheels are both spining at the same rate. However this can be compensated for in suspension set-up, like softer front-springs, some pro-dive, lower front roll centre, or even running a light-weight spool (running an old speedtech spool, and the new tamiya back to back, there was a marked improvement in turn in. I've put this down to the 8 odd gram difference in weight... might not sound much, but it deffiently works!)

The alu arms are part of the pro-module setup, they are needed to give the clearance for the shock off the wishbone.
In the LWT set you get:
2 pairs of wishbone (1 front and 1 rear per pair)
2 sets of C-hubs (1 2deg, 1 4deg)
1 pair of steering hubs
1 pair of kingpins (upper joint, and lower piviots)
1 pair of rear hubs (1deg toe)
1 pair of complete front axles (steel bones, 46mm long)
1 pair of complete rear axles (blue alu bones, 46mm long)
8x 950 bearings for axles
Plus loads of shims and spacers, and the ball joints etc
I think thats it

HiH
Ed
thanks Ed thats awesome

I am looking at buying a used LW set from a forum member who used it once but is selling it and I just wanted to know whats supposed to be in there. He said $85 shipped with heaps of spares for the 415, does it sound okay?

Whats the part number for the tamiya spool? is it expensive?

I will have to look in spool setups abit becasue our track is very small and tight. At the last race I was using my old Pro 2 against a Pro 4 and I blitzed him on the straight but he was using a one way so in the corners my car had heaps of understeer and he just went on the inside all the time, will the spool be suited to small tracks or will it produce understeer as well? from what I have seen most purpose built tracks have long sweeping corners and are quite wide so in that respect a spool may be good, or am I wrong again?

thanks again Ed
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Old 07-27-2005, 12:08 PM   #9535
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The only real way to find out if the track you run is suited to a spool or one-way is to try. Just be aware that you will have much less turn-in steering, but as long as you compensate for this in the rest of your setup (generally by running softer front springs) it should be fine.

The tamiya spool is Part #49358.
As shown on the Tam USA website: http://www.tamiyausa.com/product/it...roduct-id=49358
I'm not sure who has one in stock at the moment, but I think it'll cost around $25-30, if not less.

The deal for the LWT setup sounds good, I'd go for it

HiH
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Old 07-27-2005, 06:21 PM   #9536
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rtypec
TryHard's a man on fire. Great info!

Here's a setup that I used a while ago with the standard suspension...works well. There was another TRF setup somewhere from the Reedy Race two years ago but I don't know if anybody wrote it down...woops.

*edit* Basically the ride height was 5mm with TakeOff CS27's

rtypec,

I hear the Tamiya Factory guys basically run a standard setup and make minor tweaks to it when running asphault. Is this true? If so, where can I find it? The setup you have posted has Associated springs listed, so I assume this is not the Factory setup. Is it close though?

Thanks for any info.
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Old 07-27-2005, 11:07 PM   #9537
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RC Professor
rtypec,

I hear the Tamiya Factory guys basically run a standard setup and make minor tweaks to it when running asphault. Is this true? If so, where can I find it? The setup you have posted has Associated springs listed, so I assume this is not the Factory setup. Is it close though?

Thanks for any info.
Usually, if I am currect in saying, factory setup is what comes out of the manual. I use factory setup except for having a bit more toe in at the rear and on the steering arm connectors on the front uprights, the ball connector being on the outside hole.
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Old 07-28-2005, 01:52 AM   #9538
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Default Good starting point!

Tamiya's web site has "DJ"s set-up for the MS with his suspension! It's suppose to be the setting of choice!
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Old 07-28-2005, 02:50 AM   #9539
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxepower
Tamiya's web site has "DJ"s set-up for the MS with his suspension! It's suppose to be the setting of choice!
I think its more like the setting of 'his' chioce...
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Old 07-28-2005, 10:07 AM   #9540
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben.C
I think its more like the setting of 'his' chioce...
That promod setup posted on the Tamiya website is a VERY good setup for the Tamiya USA track and can be adapted for most medium-medium/high bite asphault rubber tracks. There are a number of us running that setup with minor adjustments but for the most part...it's money. Made the A-Main at both the Reedy and KO with it so it can't be too bad. Hehehe I outqualified DJ at the KO with his own setup...doh! Thanks for the reminder

The setup that I attached a couple of posts ago was from the 2004 Reedy Race and was based loosely off of a really REALLY dialed Evo3 setup from back in 2003. I can't remember who actually first used the associated gold/silver combo but I remember Mr. Taka Aoki saying something like "Rod, try this...it is vvveeerrry fast!"

There was another really good standard suspension setup that was being used at the 2004 Reedy Race. Jimmy Jacobson had it on his car and then it migrated over to the other drivers...but I don't think anybody wrote it down.

At this year's Reedy Race, Satoshi had a very good LW setup for the MSX that can be transfered over to an MS which was easy to drive and carried good corner speed. Again, I don't know if it was written down but I did see Kiyo Suzuki writing down and hooking up one of the drivers from Thailand with a setup sheet. I wonder if we'll ever see it
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