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Old 02-11-2010, 08:53 AM   #20791
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Well for those of you that find this and hope to get answeres, I can say I found the following (measured with a typical droop gauge):

- Jilles Groskamp's baseline setup for the 416 uses 6mm downstop under the front arm, and 5mm under the rear.
- TryHard's baseline uses 5mm under the front arm and 4mm under the rear.

The "Chassis Uptravel" measurments I wrote in my previous post, were taken using TryHard's downstop setting.
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Old 02-11-2010, 06:16 PM   #20792
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Originally Posted by 94eg! View Post
Well for those of you that find this and hope to get answeres, I can say I found the following (measured with a typical droop gauge):

- Jilles Groskamp's baseline setup for the 416 uses 6mm downstop under the front arm, and 5mm under the rear.
- TryHard's baseline uses 5mm under the front arm and 4mm under the rear.

The "Chassis Uptravel" measurments I wrote in my previous post, were taken using TryHard's downstop setting.
By "downstop" do you mean Droop?
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Old 02-11-2010, 06:38 PM   #20793
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By "downstop" do you mean Droop?
When I say downstop, I'm referring to the distance between the bottom of the chassis pan up to the bottom of the C-hub or Upright. This measurement is taken with a typical droop gauge (like the Tamiya one). A lot of people also refer to this as droop, but it's a little more complicated. If you read the Hudy setup guide, "downstop" and droop are actually two different things. Droop is the difference in chassis height between ride height and the point when the tires lose contact.

That means if I have a rear ride height of 5mm, and the tires loose contact when the chassis reaches 12mm, this gives me 7mm of suspension droop. To achieve this I had to set my rear downstop (as measured with my droop gauge) to 5mm in the rear.

Now if I raise the car 1mm, but don't change the downstop setting, I will loose 1mm of droop. If I lower the car 1mm without changing the downstop, I will gain 1mm of droop. The tires still lift of the table at 12mm, but the ride height settles at a different place. Just something to think about...

Thinking about it this way helps you to compare droop settings between non-like cars with non-like setups. Since everybody's arms c-hubs and uprights are not the same, you cannot really compare downstop measurements. This is the gauge I'm using to measure downstop:

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Old 02-11-2010, 10:08 PM   #20794
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Originally Posted by 94eg! View Post
When I say downstop, I'm referring to the distance between the bottom of the chassis pan up to the bottom of the C-hub or Upright. This measurement is taken with a typical droop gauge (like the Tamiya one). A lot of people also refer to this as droop, but it's a little more complicated. If you read the Hudy setup guide, "downstop" and droop are actually two different things. Droop is the difference in chassis height between ride height and the point when the tires lose contact.

That means if I have a rear ride height of 5mm, and the tires loose contact when the chassis reaches 12mm, this gives me 7mm of suspension droop. To achieve this I had to set my rear downstop (as measured with my droop gauge) to 5mm in the rear.

Now if I raise the car 1mm, but don't change the downstop setting, I will loose 1mm of droop. If I lower the car 1mm without changing the downstop, I will gain 1mm of droop. The tires still lift of the table at 12mm, but the ride height settles at a different place. Just something to think about...

Thinking about it this way helps you to compare droop settings between non-like cars with non-like setups. Since everybody's arms c-hubs and uprights are not the same, you cannot really compare downstop measurements. This is the gauge I'm using to measure downstop:

OIC, I use a gauge like that but I believe mine is an Integy. I have not ever meausered it that way i have always just meausured with the tool. I also think it is a little more accurate in the measurement. Going about it like you are talking about seems to be more of an "on the fly" type of adjustment. Is the was you are talking about also referred to as setting over ride height?
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Old 02-11-2010, 10:26 PM   #20795
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Originally Posted by Tha Skinny View Post
OIC, I use a gauge like that but I believe mine is an Integy. I have not ever meausered it that way i have always just meausured with the tool. I also think it is a little more accurate in the measurement. Going about it like you are talking about seems to be more of an "on the fly" type of adjustment. Is the was you are talking about also referred to as setting over ride height?
I've never heard of that term "over ride height", but I can see how someone might describe it that way. I have heard the term "uptravel" or "chassis uptravel" used before to describe it.

I can say that if your racing with rubber tires (that don't change diameter), and your not looking for droop advice from other racers with different cars, then measuring downstop with the gauge only is a simple way to ge repeatable results. It's also exactly what I've been doing all along.

Now that I'm expanding my understanding of setup, I'm finding that these settings are actually quite powerful and important. I'm really interested in comparing my settings with those of other racers at my track (who are much faster). This droop calculation will allow me to do that.

If you race with foam tires, then calculating droop instead of simple downstop is a MUST. With foam tires, your wheel diameter is constantly changing. That means your constantly adjusting ride height to compensate. That means you need to constantly adjust your downstops as well to maintain the same droop (chassis movement). This allows your car to stay more consistent.

If you want to understand more, download the Hudy setup guide at the following link. They have two sections that explain downstop and droop. One explains how to measure it, and the other explains the effects of changing it:

http://www.teamxray.com/teamxray/pro...ad64beceecaf23
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Old 02-14-2010, 06:04 PM   #20796
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Say one has access to a laser machine that is mad for cutting such materials as carbon fiber. With problem of fitting lipo in the msxx with out having to hang it off of the side or cut bulk heads. Would it creat an un even flex in the chassis by cutting it out so the battery sits lower in the chassis?
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Old 02-14-2010, 07:47 PM   #20797
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I am having problem with my spool and my one way. It has some woble issues to it. In the manual it says to use the 3x6 screw but there is no way that it fits in the one way holes. Also I when I switched to a spool I started having issues with what seems to be belt slippage. I have checked the diff over and over and it is smooth. It makes the sam sound when I take out the front drive and put tention on it with my fingers and spin the belt. Any help would be great
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Old 02-14-2010, 08:02 PM   #20798
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Originally Posted by Tha Skinny View Post
I am having problem with my spool and my one way. It has some woble issues to it. In the manual it says to use the 3x6 screw but there is no way that it fits in the one way holes. Also I when I switched to a spool I started having issues with what seems to be belt slippage. I have checked the diff over and over and it is smooth. It makes the sam sound when I take out the front drive and put tention on it with my fingers and spin the belt. Any help would be great
The one-way requires 2.6x5mm screws as seen in the MSXX instruction manual:

http://www.tamiyausa.com/pdf/manuals/49419ml.pdf

The pulley itself is located via the center hole's tight fit on the hub of the one-way or spool. I don't know if it matters, but both the MRE spool and one-way were designed for 36T pullies. The older 35T pulley's have a different size hole in the middle and are meant for an older style 415 spool (without sleeved outdrives). I don't know about the 37T pulleys.

Last edited by 94eg!; 02-14-2010 at 09:46 PM.
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Old 02-14-2010, 08:19 PM   #20799
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i have 18th diff and oneway/spool pulleys. This is not correct is it?
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Old 02-14-2010, 09:49 PM   #20800
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i have 18th diff and oneway/spool pulleys. This is not correct is it?
The diff & one-way pulley's with 18 teeth are actually called Wide Pitch or Alternated pulleys. They are really 36T pulleys that have every other tooth removed. Those should work perfectly, but really depends on what version of the spool and one-way you have. These must be used with the MRE spool and MRE one-way...

If your not sure what parts you have, compare part numbers from the instruction manuals of the MRE and MSXX on TamiyaUSA's site...

This is the MRE one-way 53947 (which includes the 2.6mm screws)


This is the MRE spool 3454401

Last edited by 94eg!; 02-14-2010 at 10:08 PM.
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Old 02-15-2010, 11:24 AM   #20801
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OIC. So what are the benefits if any at all of the skipped teeth pulleys?
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Old 02-15-2010, 12:37 PM   #20802
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OIC. So what are the benefits if any at all of the skipped teeth pulleys?
Don't really know. They were supposed to have less friction, but for whatever reason the MSXX MRE 07 version didn't use them (only the MRE 05 and MSXX 06). They are probably heavier or something (diff has 9 balls instead of 8).

They are nice for the ball diff though cause the shape provides quite a bit of shielding from dirt. My rear diff lasts about half a season of parking lot racing...
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Old 02-17-2010, 06:45 AM   #20803
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Originally Posted by Csaari77 View Post
... I would like to see where you shaved material to fit the battery.
if you decide not to shave the bulkhead ...

Tamiya TRF415-20100216-trf415-chassis-02-rctech.jpg

i have been racing with this setup for 1 full season now and just about to finish the winter season ...

i used a heavy duty 'velcro' on the bottom. and an old chassis post and custom carbon piece to keep the top of the battery in check. there is velcro between the carbon piece and the battery as well.
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Old 02-17-2010, 07:44 AM   #20804
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OIC. So what are the benefits if any at all of the skipped teeth pulleys?
It might be my imagination, but the skipped teeth pulleys look like they have a smoother tooth profile, possibly allowing the belt to come on and off of the surface patch of the pulley teeth better
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Old 02-18-2010, 04:50 PM   #20805
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OK! I read on this thread that the low-friction belts were not for modified. Is that true? I'm running a 13.5 BL system. Would they work for me?
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