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Old 05-07-2008, 10:13 PM   #19756
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Hello!

Just picked up a 415MSX and I have come across some minor issues.
First off should I bother with putting the small foam neon-orange in the shock? I know this provides rebound for the shocks, how would the handling change from rebound to no rebound spacers. Also whats the appropriate shock shaft length from the body to the ball cup?

Second, do you guys have any suggestions on removing slop from the camber links, ie replacing the ball cups with newer ones? After market ones like RPM?

Third, suspension mounts. I understand there are several combinations you can come up with for toe in and out. But when you change the mounts do you change the width?

Fourth, I am currently running a 4mm chassis, and the 3mm upper deck is this good for racing in rubber sedan class? I have heard that the stiffer the chassis the better because your suspension should be doing the work not the flex of the chassis.

Fifth, I notice you can buy a Hudy Balancing tool which has 2 spikes and you rest the chassis on to configure you electronic so the chassis is balanced. Is there a technique similar to this where I can balance the chassis by re-positioning my electronics with out buying these tool.

Where can I get the all white TRF spring kit???
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Old 05-07-2008, 11:58 PM   #19757
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THX for your reply´s !

I am gona pick up a MSXXMRE07, and i wanted to know wich stabilizers fit the car.

I also plan to get a front oneway to. Should i get a center onway also, or is the effect so minor that it is not realy necassary?

I thought along wich one i should get, the 416 ore these one, but i think the 415MSXXMRE07 is for me the better choise because i have the complete suspension parts already from my Evo´s in my pitcase (knuckles, toeblocks, uprights, bearings, ...)

One other question. The lower deck from the MSXXMRE07 is a 2,5mm one right? Is this the one wich have on the battery side holes for Stick pack mounting?

Greetings from Austria

Blueman
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Old 05-08-2008, 12:57 AM   #19758
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I am gona pick up a MSXXMRE07, and i wanted to know wich stabilizers fit the car.
Are you going to give up on the EVO5?
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Old 05-08-2008, 01:51 AM   #19759
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The front one way is more noticable than the centre one way, it will "roll" off power for longer. Using both will give you a lot of off power "roll"

Very easy to overshoot the corners as you'll have less brakes and is more suited to open,flowing tracks.
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Old 05-08-2008, 02:05 AM   #19760
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Originally Posted by EdwardMSX08 View Post
Hello!

Just picked up a 415MSX and I have come across some minor issues.
First off should I bother with putting the small foam neon-orange in the shock? I know this provides rebound for the shocks, how would the handling change from rebound to no rebound spacers. Also whats the appropriate shock shaft length from the body to the ball cup?
If your outdoors, run the foam, if indoors on carpet take it out. Basically, removing the foam helps to smooth the shock action out, which I always found best for carpet work. This was something I was advised to try by Dave Spashett many moons ago... works really well Outdoors, the orange foam is good for helping the wheels in contact with the ground over bumps.
Shock length, I go for between 63.0 and 62.0mm, depending on droop setting.

Quote:
Second, do you guys have any suggestions on removing slop from the camber links, ie replacing the ball cups with newer ones? After market ones like RPM?
Honestly, best bet is just to replace the ball cups with standard tamiya ones, and if they start to wear use the plastic bag tric. Take a thin bag (one from a spare parts packet is good), place it over the ball joint, then push the cup down. This cuts a small circle of plastic, inside the ball cup.
Otherwise, have a look at this Thard.co.uk 415 pages. You can help prolong the ball cups by using the hex headed ball joints, and then drilling a hole through the cup large enough to fit an allen driver. This means you don't have to pop the ball joint off, as this is what introduces more slop than anything else.

Quote:
Third, suspension mounts. I understand there are several combinations you can come up with for toe in and out. But when you change the mounts do you change the width?
http://www.thard.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=30 same applies to the 415

Quote:
Fourth, I am currently running a 4mm chassis, and the 3mm upper deck is this good for racing in rubber sedan class? I have heard that the stiffer the chassis the better because your suspension should be doing the work not the flex of the chassis.
It's probably a bit stiff. If you can find a thinner bottom deck (either 3 or 2.5mm) then you should be better off. Having said that, a friend of mine swore that he couldn't get his car working with a thinner chassis plate on rubbers & Carpet... but then again he is French (Hi Fab ).
Have a look at some of the setups on the 415 pages, plenty of rubber tyre setups there.

Quote:
Fifth, I notice you can buy a Hudy Balancing tool which has 2 spikes and you rest the chassis on to configure you electronic so the chassis is balanced. Is there a technique similar to this where I can balance the chassis by re-positioning my electronics with out buying these tool.
Personally, I just use a MIP Tweak station to balance the car as best as possible. Then adjust the shock collars to give accurate tweak. I'll admit, I've very rarely spent a lot of time balancing my cars, but don't seem to suffer because of it, as IMO, there are more important things that are key to a quick setup. Not to say it isn't something I do (with running LiPo, it's pretty vital to stuff a load of weight on the battery side), but I don't spend eons getting it dead perfect. If it's close, and the car is at the weight limit, I'll leave it there.

Quote:
Where can I get the all white TRF spring kit???
Unfortunately, the all white I believe is discontinued. However, there is a milky blue set you can get hold of, along with milky blue roll bars...

HiH
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Old 05-08-2008, 02:25 AM   #19761
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White PTFE tape is good to use to reduce slop on ball joints etc.its pennies for a roll at hardware shops and apparently it works well as a lubricant.
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Old 05-08-2008, 03:31 AM   #19762
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White PTFE tape is good to use to reduce slop on ball joints etc.its pennies for a roll at hardware shops and apparently it works well as a lubricant.
I have never thought of that, sounds interesting, got plenty of that laying around from doing plumbing work at home.
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Old 05-08-2008, 04:08 AM   #19763
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Cheers burlap,Beats the shit out of plastic bags.But at least MR ED is recycling so their is method in the madness
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Old 05-08-2008, 04:12 AM   #19764
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Originally Posted by jarkkom View Post
Are you going to give up on the EVO5?
No! My Evo is running very good now. I race it definatly in the 13,5 Class, but i also will try a new car, for 9,5 and stronger motors.

But my friend told me that the MSXMRE07 is sold out right now

Our favorite shop made a special deal on it 360 USD. We were to late.

Looks like i have to buy a 416. Maybe after the worlds this year, there came a new kit with spool and tit. screws included.

Greetings Blueman
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Old 05-08-2008, 07:39 AM   #19765
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Originally Posted by TryHard View Post
If

Unfortunately, the all white I believe is discontinued. However, there is a milky blue set you can get hold of, along with milky blue roll bars...

HiH
Ed
The All white springs are back in stock - check out RCMARKET in HK
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Old 05-08-2008, 03:49 PM   #19766
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Default The Stiffer the Better?

Thanks Ed for your quick responses much appreciated.

Back to the question of the mm chassis, isn't stiffer better?
Stiffer the chassis causes the suspension to do all the work. Isn't that the whole idea behind tuning your suspension... for it to do all the work?

If you have flex in your chassis does this create a buffering for a poorly tuned suspension? I understand that the flex helps with weight transfer, could you not tune weight transfer within your suspension setup?


Also..the suspension blocks I am running on the front are (f D r D) and
Rear( f A r E). Does this push my track width to maximum mm?? I am running mm Blue Clamping hex? Is it wise to run wider track in the rear and narrow in the front? What conditions should I run wide and narrow for rubber tires?


Thanks

Edward
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Old 05-08-2008, 04:08 PM   #19767
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwardMSX08 View Post
Thanks Ed for your quick responses much appreciated.

Back to the question of the mm chassis, isn't stiffer better?
Stiffer the chassis causes the suspension to do all the work. Isn't that the whole idea behind tuning your suspension... for it to do all the work?

If you have flex in your chassis does this create a buffering for a poorly tuned suspension? I understand that the flex helps with weight transfer, could you not tune weight transfer within your suspension setup?

Also..the suspension blocks I am running on the front are (f D r D) and
Rear( f A r E). Does this push my track width to maximum mm?? I am running mm Blue Clamping hex? Is it wise to run wider track in the rear and narrow in the front? What conditions should I run wide and narrow for rubber tires?

Thanks

Edward
Your on the right lines with regard to chassis stiffness... however, a thinner chassis generates more natural grip due to the flex (and lower roll centres), and is more forgiving to drive. Given that, even in the most exotic cases, an RC suspension is pretty crude in terms of tuning, the natural flex of the chassis helps to make the cars more forgiving to drive, and hence easier to drive flat out over 5mins.
Given the way the carbon plates are laid up, the flex is pretty well controlled too, with lots in torsion, but very little longitudinally or laterally (ie, you can twist, but not bend). It's why some manufactuers can make very stiff, but thin chassis plates (Schui springs to mind), as they orientate the fibres to absorb some of the torsional flex.
Something else to consider is that the dual top deck creates a box section, so technically, you get some stiffness back by having the top deck. Obviously this is still controlled in some respects by the thickness of the plates.

In terms of narrow and wide. I ended up running the rear of the car as wide is it can go (so same as you have), and very rarely touched. Only time i would change the setting would be if I wanted less toe-in, then I would make a decision as to wheather I wanted more stability (change the front block), or more mid-corner rotation (change the rear block) to go with it.

As for the front, D/D is a good combination to go with, especially when running a front one-way, works well with a spool too though indoors. Generally I would go D/D indoors on carpet, and B/A or C/A outdoors (so wider in, narrower out). Generally, most outdoor tracks have less grip, and narrowing the front down helps to give overall front end back to the car. The arm sweep (caused by running different width front and rear blocks) helps to give the car extra entry and mid corner steering too.

HiH
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Old 05-08-2008, 04:37 PM   #19768
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Thanks for your help!

I will have many questions coming soon!


Cheers!

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Old 05-08-2008, 09:30 PM   #19769
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Can i use TRF415MSXX lowerdeck on TRF415MSX?
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Old 05-08-2008, 10:50 PM   #19770
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Can i use TRF415MSXX lowerdeck on TRF415MSX?
You should be able to, as long it has holes in it for the older steering setup.
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